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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Garthanos" data-source="post: 7641689" data-attributes="member: 82504">Alanis Morissette ironic (maybe a bunch of just say no DMs) ...these numbers do not impress me In the last edition someone skilled in  bluff and stealth at what would be level 13 in 5e could pull off a stunt where they regularly can hide in plain sight (invisible as long as you do not leave the location you hid in - you could even fire your crossbow while invisible without revealing yourself). I see nothing like that happening at all let alone with a measure of reliability via skill and utility powers - I see quibbling over petty differences when casters are wrapping reality around a finger. Further the ranger needing to be a caster implies skills cannot cut it. In 5e Expertise (at level 13) will take something  from impossible to nearly impossible.... which is still ahem mechanically a fluke.</blockquote>