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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Voi_D_ragon" data-source="post: 8491782" data-attributes="member: 6855956">DISCLAIMER: <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The poll is just to see if my assumption about Timeless Body is correct, please don't make it a focal point of discussion.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I am not setting out to reshape the Monk into a Fighter or Barbarian.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">It has different unique selling points, I hope to reinforce these while making it still feel good for players who need to scratch their DPR itch.</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I want to make the Monk feel less bad in the transition from T2 to T3, (where its damage growth drops off) and remove the feeling (at least my feeling) of levels 13 & 15 being pure ribbon levels.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I will try to approach problems from a purely mechanical point of view, since it's the only thing we can actually have black on white. Every DM's approach to encounters and other campaign considerations are not my concern, because I can't know their specifics and I can't control them.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I realize that not directly addressing Stunning Blow might be an issue for some people, but I think that's a whole other can of worms TBH. For the purposes of this post, SB is just a drain on Ki points that could be spent on mobility or dodging.</li> </ul>To give a context to the fixes I will propose, I'll outline what I've found to be the biggest (relevant, IMO) complaints about the Monk.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Very MAD.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Stunning Blow is the best thing you'll ever be doing DPR-wise. This will occupy your bonus action and prevent you from doing cool things like running 120 ft up a wall. It's very hard to decouple players from the idea they should be maximising DPR at all times (I'll include myself in this) -especially if your class is, literally "I'm the guy that punches stuff". So the class suffers in the department of "I'm fast as f***, boi" because people have a hard time accepting they should move/dodge ("Boring") rather that punch ("Yeah, magic number rocks go clickety-clackity! Fun!").</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The class falls below baseline damage levels at Level 11 (<a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/buffing-monks-with-simple-changes.682059/post-8448593" target="_blank">D&D 5E - Buffing monks: with simple changes.</a>) and never recovers, basically flatlining. This is bad for two reasons: you don't get to see any features that increase your offensive output, and feel like you're stagnating; you actually fall behind in a department you had been holding your own in and had every right to believe you'd keep doing well in throughout your whole progression.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Their capstone kind of sucks.</li> </ul>To add insult to injury, you get two mid-high level features that do nothing to reinforce any of the above:Instead of gaining new interesting ways to play your guy that moves really fast and punches people, you get two abilities that clash with that mechanical identity:you guessed it, Tongue of Sun and Moon (heretoafter ToSaM) and Timeless Body (TB).ToSaM is basically an always-on 3rd level spell (Tongues) which ignores antimagic. It's kind of neat. It's also been given to a MAD class that prioritizes Wis and has very little if no mechanical incentive to ever speak to anything, ever, which makes it essentially worthless in any scenario you're actually going to roll dice; you're probably better off having a Bard do a charades dance to convince someone of something. In general, I believe players don't choose to play a Monk to fill a Face role, so a ribbon that helps them do that ultimately doesn't fit the class' design. It also comes at a pretty high level, where other classes gain significant bonuses to their combat ability (+1 use of Indomitable, or better Improved Critical). These aren't huge or even large boosts to the characters, but they do make players go "Ooh, a level up, I am stronger now!" which feels good, whereas getting a ribbon and only a ribbon feels... not great, let's say, especially for such a high level. (Yes, 2 of the original Figther subclasses get pure ribbons, but that's at level 7, and all other published Fighter subclasses -and I'm only checking Fighters, but I'm pretty sure this goes for other archetypes as well- get a mechanical boost to combat ability at that level).TB makes you immune to the effects of old age (which are specified literally nowhere -thus making it a non-mechanic-) and immune to magical aging (which, 1. afaik, is an effect exclusively inflicted by Ghosts; 2. would bring a character to die of old age at a certain point, if not for the fact that the only reference ever made to a character's maximum age is in each race's description with the rather vague "usually live up to x years", which makes it uncomfortable for DMs to determine whether a PC should be dead because of their age). It also makes you no longer require food or water, which is cute, when it comes up, which is rarely.To quickly reiterate:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You're disincentivised from spending actions or resources on mobility because it comes at the cost of DPR.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Your actual DPR stops growing when you should be getting more and more powerful.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Two levels that could help solve these problems are dedicated to:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">a feature of questionable social/utility power to a class that is mostly played as a Striker.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">a very situationalluy useful feature attached to some other absolutely useless "feature" (TB does rather bother me, I must admit).</li> </ul></li> </ul>My proposed solutions are, by and large, to allow the Monk to seriously break the action economy, but only for their class features. These features are to be added onto ToSaM and TB to make their levels not dead.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">One level would give 1 extra bonus action, useable when ki points are spent, to use an ability with a Ki cost of 1 that you haven't used yet this turn.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">One would do one of the following:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The ability to cast either Command or Suggestion a certain amount of times for free, using Wisdom (which gives ToSaM a little more oopmf, if you want to lean into the feature harder, which isn't a great option IMO, but at least makes me think I'm gaining something).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Buff Deflect Missiles by allowing it to be used even when you've already expended your reaction by spending 1 Ki (and making the throw-back free in all cases).</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Giving even more bonus actions (only one of the original three the Monk gets) and reactions (any reaction) for free as the capstone.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Potentially shuffling around some features by a few levels and adding an extra ASI at level 10 (or 14, which might be a bit late).<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">In this case, one of the first two features would not be implemented.</li> </ul></li> </ul>Thoughts?</blockquote>

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