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Two Camps of 4e Players (a rant)
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<blockquote data-quote="CovertOps" data-source="post: 4945448" data-attributes="member: 65152"><p>I run a monthly home game with a group of about 5-6 players each time. At once a month it would take forever to get all the way to 30 so I devised a way at certain points to just let the players go up several levels at once, but never more than about 3 because that would bring too much new content for the player to learn and become familiar with in my opinion. </p><p></p><p>The first of these level-ups was from level 3 to level 6. At the first game session after everyone had leveled up I had a player (2 weapon Ranger) come to the game with a feat (Staff Fighting or something similiar) that allowed him to use a staff as a double weapon (PHB2). This staff (don't recall the name) had a "Property" where it did an extra d6 damage with any melee attack. Combine this with the already broken Twin Strike and just wow....</p><p></p><p>Because character builder couldn't handle the staff he was having to manually calculate all his stuff and he was adding that damage to both main and off-hand attacks. I let it slide for the night with the intent of doing my research on RAW because that seemed really overpowered.</p><p></p><p>After several hours of reading through the books I found a section of rules on "Double Weapons" in PHB2 near the front (p14 ish -- near the weapon charts) that had a blurb that said "Weapon <em>properties</em> [/b]only[/b] apply to the main end of a double weapon. What this meant was that they had already anticipated that twin strike + weapon property = cheese and adjusted the rules so that you can't do this. In between game sessions I sent the player an email with all the rules references, page numbers, and relevant quotes showing that per RAW he was wrong to apply the "Property" damage to both swings of twin strike. I also called him to make sure he had read the email and if he had any questions. He basically bitched at me about how that made no real world sense and it was "stupid" and proceeded to not show up for the next 3 gaming sessions. To be fair I don't know why exactly he stopped coming, but it's a pretty strong case for cause and effect.</p><p></p><p>Another thing that happened 2 days ago at my game was we were again leveling up from 6 to 8 and Saturday being the first session at level 8 with new magic items one of the players came to me to show me an item he had picked (house rules) for his level up. They were boots (can't recall the name atm) that when activated gave a +2 bonus to AC as long as you didn't move from the square you were standing in. The phrasing is something like this: "As long as you don't move from the square you are in you gain a +2 bonus to AC until the start (end?) of your next turn". The player was trying to tell me that as long as he didn't move the bonus continued every round. I'm not sure how he thought an encounter power would last for an entire encounter or how he made his reading of the item, but what I told him was that he had an item with 2 possible conditions under which it's bonus would no longer apply.</p><p></p><p>My point? I think this new system is very complicated in some ways and even 20 year RPG veterans have trouble decoding plain English or in some cases don't even read all the rules that pertain to what they are trying to accomplish.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="CovertOps, post: 4945448, member: 65152"] I run a monthly home game with a group of about 5-6 players each time. At once a month it would take forever to get all the way to 30 so I devised a way at certain points to just let the players go up several levels at once, but never more than about 3 because that would bring too much new content for the player to learn and become familiar with in my opinion. The first of these level-ups was from level 3 to level 6. At the first game session after everyone had leveled up I had a player (2 weapon Ranger) come to the game with a feat (Staff Fighting or something similiar) that allowed him to use a staff as a double weapon (PHB2). This staff (don't recall the name) had a "Property" where it did an extra d6 damage with any melee attack. Combine this with the already broken Twin Strike and just wow.... Because character builder couldn't handle the staff he was having to manually calculate all his stuff and he was adding that damage to both main and off-hand attacks. I let it slide for the night with the intent of doing my research on RAW because that seemed really overpowered. After several hours of reading through the books I found a section of rules on "Double Weapons" in PHB2 near the front (p14 ish -- near the weapon charts) that had a blurb that said "Weapon [i]properties[/i] [/b]only[/b] apply to the main end of a double weapon. What this meant was that they had already anticipated that twin strike + weapon property = cheese and adjusted the rules so that you can't do this. In between game sessions I sent the player an email with all the rules references, page numbers, and relevant quotes showing that per RAW he was wrong to apply the "Property" damage to both swings of twin strike. I also called him to make sure he had read the email and if he had any questions. He basically bitched at me about how that made no real world sense and it was "stupid" and proceeded to not show up for the next 3 gaming sessions. To be fair I don't know why exactly he stopped coming, but it's a pretty strong case for cause and effect. Another thing that happened 2 days ago at my game was we were again leveling up from 6 to 8 and Saturday being the first session at level 8 with new magic items one of the players came to me to show me an item he had picked (house rules) for his level up. They were boots (can't recall the name atm) that when activated gave a +2 bonus to AC as long as you didn't move from the square you were standing in. The phrasing is something like this: "As long as you don't move from the square you are in you gain a +2 bonus to AC until the start (end?) of your next turn". The player was trying to tell me that as long as he didn't move the bonus continued every round. I'm not sure how he thought an encounter power would last for an entire encounter or how he made his reading of the item, but what I told him was that he had an item with 2 possible conditions under which it's bonus would no longer apply. My point? I think this new system is very complicated in some ways and even 20 year RPG veterans have trouble decoding plain English or in some cases don't even read all the rules that pertain to what they are trying to accomplish. [/QUOTE]
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