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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 4946580" data-attributes="member: 2011">I think 4E is more complex than people think. Probably just as complex as 3E in some ways.Either that, or it is so different from 3E that people who have played earlier versions might have more difficult times with it.In our group, if a player is missing, someone else plays their PC. I never remember this being an issue in earlier versions (course, memory is a tricky thing).This is an issue for 4E, at least for our group. It is fairly difficult for people to quickly grasp how to play a PC that is not theirs, even if they have seen that PC in action for many months. And, it's a bit daunting when you hand over a character sheet from Character Builder that is 6 or more pages long.Even as DM, I have read all of my player's PC character sheets and every once in a while, I have to ask a player how the PC is doing what s/he is doing.For years, just about anyone at a table could remember that a 7th level Wizard did 7D6 with a Fireball or a Lightning Bolt. Now, the player of the Wizard has to have a little Fireball cheat sheet. Or at least it seems that way for many spells. Is the target pushed 3 squares, or 2? Is the effect only if you hit, or if you miss as well? Do you target AC or Reflex or Fort or Will? Is the range 5 or 10? Mods + 1D6 or 2D6 or 3D6 or 1D8 or 2D8 or 3D8 or weapon or some other damage? Is the effect instantaneous, or does the effect last until save, until the end of the encounter, until the start of the caster's next turn, until the end of the caster's next turn, until the start of the target's next turn, or until the end of the target's next turn?There seems to be a lot of rules involved in many powers, forcing players to have little cheat sheets for each power. And unlike 3E where it was mostly the complex spells (like Confusion), it's many spells / powers now. And, it's also class features. The ones that auto add to something on the character sheet are not so bad, but the conditional ones can be.As a simple example, doing double damage on a critical is a lot easier rule to remember than "max+1D6, max+1D8, or max, or max+1D12, etc." depending on which weapon or implement is being used.So yes, I think that Character Builder is practically essential to playing the game. One player in our group has designed his own spreadsheet, but it's still so complex that I modify a CB version of his PC, just to make sure the math is fine.</blockquote>

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