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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Two Camps of 4e Players (a rant)
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<blockquote data-quote="Turtlejay" data-source="post: 4949079" data-attributes="member: 70267"><p>Once again, a promising rules discussion turns to 4e bashing. What is the deal with that?</p><p> </p><p>I like the CB, but give it a 7/10. For sure there is a ton of room for improvement. For instance, most Dragon magazine feats do not include any kind of summary. Since dragon is digital only, you either have to memorize the feat (no problem if it is your PC, bigger problem if you are playing someone else's, huge problem if you are DMing and want to see what the feat does) or print out the relevant article. Silly options that should not be a problem, the CB should have all of the feats summarized. Devote more attention to that and less to a paragraph describing how my character looks. Rules space is on the paper, roleplaying space is between my ears. Print 2 power cards for healing word and it's clones, since you get 2 encounter uses. Allow us to approve/deny specific cards to be printed. There are dozens of tweaks to make the CB better in my opinion.</p><p> </p><p>On topic though, the CB is part of the problem. Not only to I think some players never read the books, relying on the CB to supply their rules for them, in my group there are some players that do not have the CB, and update their character the day of the game on the DM's CB. So not only are they not reading the books, they have not put any thought into their character.</p><p> </p><p>I'm not sure of the cause, but I do know that a good DM (not just someone with good DMing ideas, a good DM that is good with people) can smooth over 90% of the issues. Knowing the rules yourself, and having good players to shore up the bad will keep many problems in line. 4e is certainly not an easy game to learn, but I had a rules dispute crop up in Phase 10 (a card game) last month for heaven's sake. Rules disputes are not only a 4e or pen and paper game problem, any time you have a group of people gather with an assumed set of criteria, there will be disputes. Challenges the the assumtions or what have you. Good DMs and good gaming groups can usually deal with these and move on.</p><p> </p><p>Jay</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Turtlejay, post: 4949079, member: 70267"] Once again, a promising rules discussion turns to 4e bashing. What is the deal with that? I like the CB, but give it a 7/10. For sure there is a ton of room for improvement. For instance, most Dragon magazine feats do not include any kind of summary. Since dragon is digital only, you either have to memorize the feat (no problem if it is your PC, bigger problem if you are playing someone else's, huge problem if you are DMing and want to see what the feat does) or print out the relevant article. Silly options that should not be a problem, the CB should have all of the feats summarized. Devote more attention to that and less to a paragraph describing how my character looks. Rules space is on the paper, roleplaying space is between my ears. Print 2 power cards for healing word and it's clones, since you get 2 encounter uses. Allow us to approve/deny specific cards to be printed. There are dozens of tweaks to make the CB better in my opinion. On topic though, the CB is part of the problem. Not only to I think some players never read the books, relying on the CB to supply their rules for them, in my group there are some players that do not have the CB, and update their character the day of the game on the DM's CB. So not only are they not reading the books, they have not put any thought into their character. I'm not sure of the cause, but I do know that a good DM (not just someone with good DMing ideas, a good DM that is good with people) can smooth over 90% of the issues. Knowing the rules yourself, and having good players to shore up the bad will keep many problems in line. 4e is certainly not an easy game to learn, but I had a rules dispute crop up in Phase 10 (a card game) last month for heaven's sake. Rules disputes are not only a 4e or pen and paper game problem, any time you have a group of people gather with an assumed set of criteria, there will be disputes. Challenges the the assumtions or what have you. Good DMs and good gaming groups can usually deal with these and move on. Jay [/QUOTE]
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Two Camps of 4e Players (a rant)
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