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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Nahat Anoj" data-source="post: 4191490" data-attributes="member: 25075">From what I understand, there is no set time limit.  The walls close after however many failures.  The OP didn't say how many failures players could take, or what, exactly failure means, but there is no set time limit.  Personally, I wouldn't have the players killed by the closing walls when they get that final failure, but I would have them be captured or something.  Failure on a skill challenge should be more about setbacks than actual death, IMO.The purpose of skill challenges is that no one will simply stand back and watch the skill player any more, just like how the cleric no longer has to stand back and heal during combat.  Everyone will probably have some way to contribute in a skill challenge.If you decide not to participate, it's not failure for the group - they can continue making whatever rolls they need to.  You simply aren't contributing - you aren't advancing the group toward success, nor are you accumulating any failures.  Depending on the nature of the scenario, the group may not mind or, if they are beset by ravening orcs, they would be pissed that you would just stand there and do nothing.To me it's not so much about group participation as it is about a more structured, dynamic pacing system.  It keeps the tension high, like in Star Wars when the garbage pit is closing in and, at the last moment, seemingly out of nowhere, Luke manages to get C3P0's attention.Puzzles *could* be handled as a skill challenge, and that might be a good way to model the frantic, "Think of something already!" moments such as solving a puzzle while the ceiling is caving in (I saw this on an episode of Stargate SG-1, actually).  But if there's nothing else going on then players can just scratch their noggins as they try to figure it out.  I'm not sure exactly what Insight does, but I think it has more to do with social situations than with generic "getting an idea," so it may be the OP used it "wrong."  It's just a way to pace the system.  If the players need 4 success and can only take 3 failures, and they've got 3 successes and 2 failures, the tension is going to be pretty high, just like in baseball when it's the 9th inning, there's two outs, a full count, and the bases are loaded.  DMs could always do this on the fly (I've done it before), but now there's a structured system for it.  Again, everyone should be able to participate, so there's no reason to anyone should be inactive.  I mean, why would someone stand around while his buddies are holding off the orcs and the rogue is trying to disarm the trap?  He's going to want to do *something* - he can either help fend off the orcs, or try to bring a skill to bear to help the rogue out with the door. From everything I'm hearing, it sounds like what characters can do is constrained by the situation.  So, no, Diplomacy won't work on a horde of frenzied orcs - that's just common sense.  I would say no, sounding like a hungry cave lion wouldn't work either, because the skill challenge is opening the door, and the door doesn't care about sounds.  And honestly, the climb thing makes no sense - I would not allow a player to pull that kind of BS on me.So honestly, I think it's just a more structured way to pace the situation.  If players are creative and the DM willing everyone has a way to contribute.  And no one, not even the DM, knows how things will play out.  That sounds fun to me.</blockquote>

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