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General Tabletop Discussion
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Two Example Skill Challenges
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 4195337" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>If the players describe this activity before the dice are rolled, then yes, they are playinig 1st ed AD&D-style simulationism. If they describe this activity after the dice are rolled (and shield a success on "siege tactics" skill or whatever is the relevant skill) then it fits with a narrativist, skill challenge approach.</p><p></p><p></p><p>That probably depends on whether the description of activity comes before or after the dice are rolled.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Maybe. As I think some of your ruminations on perception checks have illustrated, there can be a degree of tension (not necessarily, but potentially, reaching the level of incoherence) when a game's action resolution mechanics try to combine dice-based skill checks and drama-based (AD&D-style) action resolution. The skill challenge mechanic seems to be an attempt to resolve this tension in the direction of a dice-based system rather than a drama (and, therefore and necessarily, player knowledge and GM-persuasion-based) system. That is, succeeding on the dice roll gives the player permission to introduce a certain description into the game (such as making the Conan-style fortifications and other preparations).</p><p></p><p></p><p>I'll also be interested to see it. I am assuming that it will look more like HeroWars than like AD&D, RQ or 3E.</p><p></p><p>And just out of interest - I gather that you are not arguing that HeroWars is impossible to play well, but just that it is at odds with the standard D&D way of doing things? If so, I agree with you, as the paragraphs above hopefully demonstrate.</p><p></p><p>But unlike you I think that this is a good way for D&D to go. I think it has the potential to increase the appeal of D&D as a game- ie success on dice rolls triggers certain permissions for the players. In the more simulationist approach, success on dice rolls or drama at best imposes certain prohibitions on the GM (ie the GM must take account of the fact that my tactics roll was a success, or that I have carefully described my siege preparateions). This dominant role for one player is a little counterintuitive for someone new to RPGing, I suspect.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 4195337, member: 42582"] If the players describe this activity before the dice are rolled, then yes, they are playinig 1st ed AD&D-style simulationism. If they describe this activity after the dice are rolled (and shield a success on "siege tactics" skill or whatever is the relevant skill) then it fits with a narrativist, skill challenge approach. That probably depends on whether the description of activity comes before or after the dice are rolled. Maybe. As I think some of your ruminations on perception checks have illustrated, there can be a degree of tension (not necessarily, but potentially, reaching the level of incoherence) when a game's action resolution mechanics try to combine dice-based skill checks and drama-based (AD&D-style) action resolution. The skill challenge mechanic seems to be an attempt to resolve this tension in the direction of a dice-based system rather than a drama (and, therefore and necessarily, player knowledge and GM-persuasion-based) system. That is, succeeding on the dice roll gives the player permission to introduce a certain description into the game (such as making the Conan-style fortifications and other preparations). I'll also be interested to see it. I am assuming that it will look more like HeroWars than like AD&D, RQ or 3E. And just out of interest - I gather that you are not arguing that HeroWars is impossible to play well, but just that it is at odds with the standard D&D way of doing things? If so, I agree with you, as the paragraphs above hopefully demonstrate. But unlike you I think that this is a good way for D&D to go. I think it has the potential to increase the appeal of D&D as a game- ie success on dice rolls triggers certain permissions for the players. In the more simulationist approach, success on dice rolls or drama at best imposes certain prohibitions on the GM (ie the GM must take account of the fact that my tactics roll was a success, or that I have carefully described my siege preparateions). This dominant role for one player is a little counterintuitive for someone new to RPGing, I suspect. [/QUOTE]
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