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<blockquote data-quote="2eBladeSinger" data-source="post: 4195666" data-attributes="member: 65432">...Example trucatedI think this is a better example of a skill challenge trap.&nbsp; However, I still have a problem with the abstracting of&nbsp; what should be very specific solutions:&nbsp; The trap has a single trigger and a single solution (the switch).&nbsp; If the PCs use their skills creatively to find the trap (e.g. History or Dungeoneering rather than Perception and Thievery) that is just the PCs being clever and roleplaying well.&nbsp; It's still worth XP in my book.&nbsp; There's no reason to make it a skill challenge wherein four failures means death.&nbsp; It's time that will kill the PCs.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1. The trap is triggered&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2. The PCs have three rounds to find the switch to deactivate it&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 3. The PCs need to locate the switch, and then deactivate it.&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 4. The PCs can use any skill they find relevant to disarm the trap.&nbsp; The DM decides if the skill is ultimately relevant.&nbsp; Otherwise we have a situation where traps have triggers because of successful HIstory checks not discovered with the creative use of History checks.&nbsp; I'm all for creative use of skills; I'm all for awarding XP for creative use of skills.&nbsp; What I am not for is new mechanic that is more awkward and less believable than the mechanic that already exists and has existed.&nbsp; Let me use one of my own examples:&nbsp; A long long time ago, in a dungeon far, far away I was a player in a game and our party was exploring a keep we had cleared.&nbsp; We knew in one of the rooms, there was a secret door.&nbsp; (we knew this because a foe had escaped into it and we found the room empty with no exits).&nbsp; None of the elves could find the door in the traditional elven way (d6s) so the party started taking candles from the chapel and walking around the walls slowly (the DM rolled dice) and we found nothing.&nbsp; Then we poured barrels of ale on the floor (the DM rolled dice) and we found nothing.&nbsp; Then we tossed flour into the air (the DM rolled dice) and we found runes outlined on some stones in the corner and subsequently found the door.My point is that getting to use skills creatively does not ipso facto make a skill challenge.&nbsp; In a skill challenge, four failures would mean we wouldn't find the door and no matter how much time we'd spent looking for those runes, we would have needed five more successes before we were allowed to 'win' the challenge.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="2eBladeSinger, post: 4195666, member: 65432"] ...Example trucated I think this is a better example of a skill challenge trap. However, I still have a problem with the abstracting of what should be very specific solutions: The trap has a single trigger and a single solution (the switch). If the PCs use their skills creatively to find the trap (e.g. History or Dungeoneering rather than Perception and Thievery) that is just the PCs being clever and roleplaying well. It's still worth XP in my book. There's no reason to make it a skill challenge wherein four failures means death. It's time that will kill the PCs. 1. The trap is triggered 2. The PCs have three rounds to find the switch to deactivate it 3. The PCs need to locate the switch, and then deactivate it. 4. The PCs can use any skill they find relevant to disarm the trap. The DM decides if the skill is ultimately relevant. Otherwise we have a situation where traps have triggers because of successful HIstory checks not discovered with the creative use of History checks. I'm all for creative use of skills; I'm all for awarding XP for creative use of skills. What I am not for is new mechanic that is more awkward and less believable than the mechanic that already exists and has existed. Let me use one of my own examples: A long long time ago, in a dungeon far, far away I was a player in a game and our party was exploring a keep we had cleared. We knew in one of the rooms, there was a secret door. (we knew this because a foe had escaped into it and we found the room empty with no exits). None of the elves could find the door in the traditional elven way (d6s) so the party started taking candles from the chapel and walking around the walls slowly (the DM rolled dice) and we found nothing. Then we poured barrels of ale on the floor (the DM rolled dice) and we found nothing. Then we tossed flour into the air (the DM rolled dice) and we found runes outlined on some stones in the corner and subsequently found the door. My point is that getting to use skills creatively does not ipso facto make a skill challenge. In a skill challenge, four failures would mean we wouldn't find the door and no matter how much time we'd spent looking for those runes, we would have needed five more successes before we were allowed to 'win' the challenge. [/QUOTE]

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