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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 4203803" data-attributes="member: 4937">Or first edition for that matter, even though it did not have a formal skill system.I get really tired of people claiming that the rules forbid things that they were silent on.&nbsp; That that the rules don't forbid, they permit.I can design a skill challenge under the RAW even without the slightlest stretching of interpretation.&nbsp; It's not hard.&nbsp; One example would be 'Convince the council of Lords to elect you the new king.'&nbsp; Each of the 9 city council members must be convinced of your claim to the throne using whatever means appropriate to that NPC.&nbsp; Since each council person has different goals and personalities, no one single roll will do the trick.&nbsp; Five successes required to win the challenge.&nbsp; Another example would be a door which has 3 (or more) separate simple locks and traps on it.&nbsp; Multiple successful rolls may be required to open the door without penalty.&nbsp; Another example might be a 'survive the ship wreck'/'hurricane'/'night in the mountains in a snow storm' type encounter.&nbsp; Again, no one roll generally does the trick within a larger more abstract goal like that.&nbsp; I've been facing and designing encounters like this since 1st edition.I've never denied that.&nbsp; In fact, since the very start I've said that the point of a skill challenge was to provide a non-combat system which did not depend significantly on DM fiat and so was suitable for using within tournament modules (and computer games).Agreed.&nbsp; I would argue however that for casual PnP play such an inflexible system is generally inferior to one in which DM judgement and invention is allowed to occur within the framework in responce to player creativity.&nbsp; Story awards are most certainly not against the 3.X rules.&nbsp; What 3.x lacked wasn't story awards, it was any kind of system for matching a story award to the difficulty in accomplishing it.&nbsp; The majority of these are advantages you accrue from other aspects of 4e that have nothing to do with the skill challenge system.Use of the 3.x system does not preclude having an RP centric group that also heavily relies on the skill system to resolve non-combat events.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 4203803, member: 4937"] Or first edition for that matter, even though it did not have a formal skill system. I get really tired of people claiming that the rules forbid things that they were silent on. That that the rules don't forbid, they permit. I can design a skill challenge under the RAW even without the slightlest stretching of interpretation. It's not hard. One example would be 'Convince the council of Lords to elect you the new king.' Each of the 9 city council members must be convinced of your claim to the throne using whatever means appropriate to that NPC. Since each council person has different goals and personalities, no one single roll will do the trick. Five successes required to win the challenge. Another example would be a door which has 3 (or more) separate simple locks and traps on it. Multiple successful rolls may be required to open the door without penalty. Another example might be a 'survive the ship wreck'/'hurricane'/'night in the mountains in a snow storm' type encounter. Again, no one roll generally does the trick within a larger more abstract goal like that. I've been facing and designing encounters like this since 1st edition. I've never denied that. In fact, since the very start I've said that the point of a skill challenge was to provide a non-combat system which did not depend significantly on DM fiat and so was suitable for using within tournament modules (and computer games). Agreed. I would argue however that for casual PnP play such an inflexible system is generally inferior to one in which DM judgement and invention is allowed to occur within the framework in responce to player creativity. Story awards are most certainly not against the 3.X rules. What 3.x lacked wasn't story awards, it was any kind of system for matching a story award to the difficulty in accomplishing it. The majority of these are advantages you accrue from other aspects of 4e that have nothing to do with the skill challenge system. Use of the 3.x system does not preclude having an RP centric group that also heavily relies on the skill system to resolve non-combat events. [/QUOTE]

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