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General Tabletop Discussion
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Two underlying truths: D&D heritage and inclusivity
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<blockquote data-quote="Mercurius" data-source="post: 8018349" data-attributes="member: 59082"><p>Fair enough, but I'd like to address this point. To be clear, I don't disagree that there is similarity between the depiction of orcs and racist stereotypes. I disagree that this ties orcs to the ethnic groups in question, because the racist stereotypes have nothing to do with actual ethnic groups and everything to do with racial hatred and perception of the "evil other." The view of orcs espoused in the D&D text, which I assume is meant to represent the consensus view of character races, is similar to the view of certain racists whites towards non-whites. That actually makes a certain degree of sense, based upon folklore, D&D lore and the traditional role of orcs as the primary evil race.</p><p></p><p>Why is having an "evil other"--especially a non-human evil other--inherently problematic in a fantasy game to which fighting evil is a central tenet? </p><p></p><p>If this is a problem, it means that the whole notion of the "evil other" or evil monsters is a problem. I agree that it most certainly is in real life, but in a mythic fantasy game? If orcs are humanized and "brought into the fold," so to speak, why not extend the olive branch further? What about kobolds, gnolls, goblins, etc? What about dragons, even demons and devils, who often manifest in humanoid form?</p><p></p><p>As I said elsewhere, I like varying core assumptions and making my own versions of monsters and races. I don't think any monster or race has to conform to the traditional D&D trope. But I also don't see a problem with evil races in the context of a fantasy roleplaying game, which is more based on myth and folklore--in which there are evil creatures and spirits--than it is on real world anthropology.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mercurius, post: 8018349, member: 59082"] Fair enough, but I'd like to address this point. To be clear, I don't disagree that there is similarity between the depiction of orcs and racist stereotypes. I disagree that this ties orcs to the ethnic groups in question, because the racist stereotypes have nothing to do with actual ethnic groups and everything to do with racial hatred and perception of the "evil other." The view of orcs espoused in the D&D text, which I assume is meant to represent the consensus view of character races, is similar to the view of certain racists whites towards non-whites. That actually makes a certain degree of sense, based upon folklore, D&D lore and the traditional role of orcs as the primary evil race. Why is having an "evil other"--especially a non-human evil other--inherently problematic in a fantasy game to which fighting evil is a central tenet? If this is a problem, it means that the whole notion of the "evil other" or evil monsters is a problem. I agree that it most certainly is in real life, but in a mythic fantasy game? If orcs are humanized and "brought into the fold," so to speak, why not extend the olive branch further? What about kobolds, gnolls, goblins, etc? What about dragons, even demons and devils, who often manifest in humanoid form? As I said elsewhere, I like varying core assumptions and making my own versions of monsters and races. I don't think any monster or race has to conform to the traditional D&D trope. But I also don't see a problem with evil races in the context of a fantasy roleplaying game, which is more based on myth and folklore--in which there are evil creatures and spirits--than it is on real world anthropology. [/QUOTE]
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