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Two underlying truths: D&D heritage and inclusivity
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<blockquote data-quote="TaranTheWanderer" data-source="post: 8028015" data-attributes="member: 15882"><p>I didn't bother reading the spoiler content. No need to drive anything home. I agree with you'. I know why George kills Lenny and that was my point. The story is deeper. Done properly, you can put a lens on topics that are bad without it being bad. That's the point pulling it apart and analyzing it. </p><p></p><p>I think the Druegar story is interesting. On the surface, I can see why people would be upset by that story and think it's drivel. For game content, I think that's a bit of bad writing. If you take away the opening sentence and the ending sentence, there is no judgement on either race. The whole passage is nothing more than History - description. I do think it makes for an interesting story, though, if you start adding personalities to the history. Just think of how you lead your players by the nose only to find out the righteous dwarves are actually the bad guy.</p><p></p><p>Edit: I think the writers have to stop making judgement calls and keep things closer to 'historical facts'.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Neither am I. But it it an appropriate? As I said previously, WotC is a gaming/media company so I'm not sure they should touch on tough subjects. Should they leave it up to the gamer or should they provide guidelines of how to delve deeper and explore those topics?</p><p></p><p>I find this part hard to articulate, so forgive me,</p><p></p><p>I, literally, never thought of Orcs as a racist thing until this thread pointed it out. In my own games, goblins keep coming up as the issue (maybe because we play lots of low level games). Years ago, never a problem - kill the goblins. These days, harder to justify. Is it my age or the fact that society is changing? Or is it that I'm more interested in more complex stories?</p><p></p><p>There is nothing in Mines of Phandelver that touches on the what-ifs of murdering a cave full of goblins. In Mines, you can ally yourself with the goblins against the Bugbear. But it's hard. Goblins are described as cruel and they're often murdering people and robbing caravans. Can you, in good conscious let them live? What if you find out they murdered someone in Phandelver and you could have prevented that? A note to the DM of how do deal with them differently or how different tables can approach the challenge would be useful. Sure, one day they might change the flavor of goblins but I don't think that it's the (only) answer.</p><p></p><p>In the end, is it their responsibility or the gamers responsibility to venture into those complicated issues? IDK, honestly.</p><p></p><p>I think WotC is just trying to navigate the current affairs and, as people in a company, want to put out a product that isn't in conflict with their own values. On the other side of the coin, it's hard to use gaming as a lens to explore hard ideas without also touching on sensitive topics that might make people feel uncomfortable.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="TaranTheWanderer, post: 8028015, member: 15882"] I didn't bother reading the spoiler content. No need to drive anything home. I agree with you'. I know why George kills Lenny and that was my point. The story is deeper. Done properly, you can put a lens on topics that are bad without it being bad. That's the point pulling it apart and analyzing it. I think the Druegar story is interesting. On the surface, I can see why people would be upset by that story and think it's drivel. For game content, I think that's a bit of bad writing. If you take away the opening sentence and the ending sentence, there is no judgement on either race. The whole passage is nothing more than History - description. I do think it makes for an interesting story, though, if you start adding personalities to the history. Just think of how you lead your players by the nose only to find out the righteous dwarves are actually the bad guy. Edit: I think the writers have to stop making judgement calls and keep things closer to 'historical facts'. Neither am I. But it it an appropriate? As I said previously, WotC is a gaming/media company so I'm not sure they should touch on tough subjects. Should they leave it up to the gamer or should they provide guidelines of how to delve deeper and explore those topics? I find this part hard to articulate, so forgive me, I, literally, never thought of Orcs as a racist thing until this thread pointed it out. In my own games, goblins keep coming up as the issue (maybe because we play lots of low level games). Years ago, never a problem - kill the goblins. These days, harder to justify. Is it my age or the fact that society is changing? Or is it that I'm more interested in more complex stories? There is nothing in Mines of Phandelver that touches on the what-ifs of murdering a cave full of goblins. In Mines, you can ally yourself with the goblins against the Bugbear. But it's hard. Goblins are described as cruel and they're often murdering people and robbing caravans. Can you, in good conscious let them live? What if you find out they murdered someone in Phandelver and you could have prevented that? A note to the DM of how do deal with them differently or how different tables can approach the challenge would be useful. Sure, one day they might change the flavor of goblins but I don't think that it's the (only) answer. In the end, is it their responsibility or the gamers responsibility to venture into those complicated issues? IDK, honestly. I think WotC is just trying to navigate the current affairs and, as people in a company, want to put out a product that isn't in conflict with their own values. On the other side of the coin, it's hard to use gaming as a lens to explore hard ideas without also touching on sensitive topics that might make people feel uncomfortable. [/QUOTE]
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