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Two underlying truths: D&D heritage and inclusivity
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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8029806" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>[USER=6801776]@Mecheon[/USER] makes a valid and good point, but I want to address your other point for a second before I get back to that. </p><p></p><p>I'm sorry if you feel like your heritage can't be represented because someone who is not a part of it will tell you that representation is wrong. But, I also do not feel sorry that if that were represented and someone who is part of that heritage takes offense and they get the company to back off. </p><p></p><p>That is a complicated matter, and it is a treacherous slope, but I think your point about enemies and sides... well, I don't want there to be sides. I don't want to have enemies. I don't want to have to decide "is it more offensive to speak up and support minority opinions or more offensive to stay silent and let them stand alone." All of this is ugly, stressful and I wish the world would just stop being a flaming naughty word pile and sort itself out so we can just sit down and have fun playing games. </p><p></p><p>But it isn't, and if it is going to be wrong of me to act in either direction, I'm going to act in the direction I can sleep with at night. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>To the point of MONSTERS!!!</p><p></p><p>Well, if orcs are monsters then half-orcs should not exist. Period, end of discussion. Because if they do exist, then it means that they are the children of rape. I don't know about anyone else's table, but at my table? Not a single one of my player's wants to answer the question "So, did your father rape your mother, or your mother rape your father?"</p><p></p><p>So, if half-orcs exist, then Orcs have to be people. And if they are people, then your defense of MONSTERS!!! doesn't hold.</p><p></p><p></p><p>But, what about Tieflings? Devils are definitely monsters. So, the defense works right?</p><p></p><p>Except, what is the lore about Tielfings? In both 5e and 4e it is the same story "Their appearance and their nature is not their fault, but the result of an ancient sin, for which they, and their children and their children's children will always be held accountable."</p><p></p><p>So, Tieflings are literally the "The sins of the Father." Their ancestors committed a crime, so now they must be discriminated and punished for it, thousands of years later. And, most people agree that is naughty word reasoning for discrimination. And yet, the standard lore tells me that I must engage with it. If I am to take the story of Tieflings as presented, I must have my NPCS shun and discriminate a group of people for their ancestor's crimes. </p><p></p><p>And again, I don't want that. And other people don't want that. </p><p></p><p></p><p>And, well half-elves are the children of "civilized" races, the only black elves are Drow. And a half-drow would be, how have other posters put it "shot on sight". So, again, not exactly a great look for the game world.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Moradin is Lawful Good. Corellan is Chaotic Good. Garl Glittergold is Chaotic Good. </p><p></p><p>Can you have a clan of evil dwarves? </p><p>An Elven Lich out to destroy the world? </p><p>Gnome crime cartel? </p><p></p><p>Those races were made by the gods, very closely steeped in their traditions. Yet, I do not believe that anyone would really blink thrice at a villainous version of them. </p><p></p><p>But good orcs are impossible because Gruumsh made them evil?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 8029806, member: 6801228"] [USER=6801776]@Mecheon[/USER] makes a valid and good point, but I want to address your other point for a second before I get back to that. I'm sorry if you feel like your heritage can't be represented because someone who is not a part of it will tell you that representation is wrong. But, I also do not feel sorry that if that were represented and someone who is part of that heritage takes offense and they get the company to back off. That is a complicated matter, and it is a treacherous slope, but I think your point about enemies and sides... well, I don't want there to be sides. I don't want to have enemies. I don't want to have to decide "is it more offensive to speak up and support minority opinions or more offensive to stay silent and let them stand alone." All of this is ugly, stressful and I wish the world would just stop being a flaming naughty word pile and sort itself out so we can just sit down and have fun playing games. But it isn't, and if it is going to be wrong of me to act in either direction, I'm going to act in the direction I can sleep with at night. To the point of MONSTERS!!! Well, if orcs are monsters then half-orcs should not exist. Period, end of discussion. Because if they do exist, then it means that they are the children of rape. I don't know about anyone else's table, but at my table? Not a single one of my player's wants to answer the question "So, did your father rape your mother, or your mother rape your father?" So, if half-orcs exist, then Orcs have to be people. And if they are people, then your defense of MONSTERS!!! doesn't hold. But, what about Tieflings? Devils are definitely monsters. So, the defense works right? Except, what is the lore about Tielfings? In both 5e and 4e it is the same story "Their appearance and their nature is not their fault, but the result of an ancient sin, for which they, and their children and their children's children will always be held accountable." So, Tieflings are literally the "The sins of the Father." Their ancestors committed a crime, so now they must be discriminated and punished for it, thousands of years later. And, most people agree that is naughty word reasoning for discrimination. And yet, the standard lore tells me that I must engage with it. If I am to take the story of Tieflings as presented, I must have my NPCS shun and discriminate a group of people for their ancestor's crimes. And again, I don't want that. And other people don't want that. And, well half-elves are the children of "civilized" races, the only black elves are Drow. And a half-drow would be, how have other posters put it "shot on sight". So, again, not exactly a great look for the game world. Moradin is Lawful Good. Corellan is Chaotic Good. Garl Glittergold is Chaotic Good. Can you have a clan of evil dwarves? An Elven Lich out to destroy the world? Gnome crime cartel? Those races were made by the gods, very closely steeped in their traditions. Yet, I do not believe that anyone would really blink thrice at a villainous version of them. But good orcs are impossible because Gruumsh made them evil? [/QUOTE]
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