Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kaylos" data-source="post: 6352421" data-attributes="member: 6778092">I reran my numbers based off this information from the other thread.  I had to include crits in my numbers to account for GWF, but did not account for misses or hit %, so take it with a grain of salt.  The GWF feat is a large damage boost for Champions, pushing over a 20% DPR boost at level 20.Level 1 16 StrDuelist - 9.5, 9.725 critTWF - 13, 13.35 critGWF Greatsword - 11.33, 11.75 critGWF Great Axe - 10.33, 10.70 critLevel 4 18 Str, Crit Range 19-20 (Champion Archetype)Duelist - 10.5, 10.95 critTWF - 15, 15.7 critGWF Greatsword - 12.33, 13.16 critGWF Great Axe - 11.33, 12.06 critLevel 6 20 Str, 2 attacksDuelist - 23, 23.9 critTWF - 25.5, 26.55 critGWF Greatsword - 26.67, 28.34 critGWF Great Axe - 24.67, 26.14 critLevel 8 Feats -Great Weapon Master: Bonus Attack on crit of kill.  The math gets really funky for the bonus attack, since you have to factor % chance to get it.  I did not factor in opportunity attacks triggering bonus attack.-Dual Wielder: Use one hand weapon (d6 to d8)Duelist - no change form level 6TWF - 28.5, 29.85 critGWF Greatsword - 26.67, 31.03 critGWF Great Axe - 24.67, 28.62 critLevel 11 3 attacksDuelist - 34.5, 35.85 critTWF - 38, 39.8 critGWF Greatsword - 40, 46.34 critGWF Great Axe - 37, 42.74 critLevel 15 18-20 Crit RangeDuelist - 34.5, 36.525 critTWF - 38, 40.7 critGWF Greatsword - 40, 49.38 critGWF Great Axe - 37, 45.48 critLevel 20 4 attacksDuelist - 46, 48.7 critTWF - 47.5, 50.875 critGWF Greatsword - 53.33, 65.30 critGWF Great Axe - 49.33, 60.15 critExample level 15 Greatsword Fighter math.25(6d6, reroll 1s,2s)+15 = 40, +.15(crit chance)*25(6d6, reroll 1s,2s), = 43.75, +bonus attack .386(15% crit chance on 3 attacks)*[13.33(2d6,reroll 1s,2s)+1.25(crit DPAttack)] = 49.38Yes, the math for level 15 and 20 for the great weapons is messed up.  Crit dmg should be lightly higher as I messed up the Crit damage on the bonus attack.  So both weapons should be even slightly higher at those levels.  Will fix it later.Edit: Corrected.  Also note that the Champion Archetype plays to Great Weapons a lot because of the increased Crit Range than it does to other weapons.  Opportunity Attacks would increase the Great Weapon Master frequency even more.Edit #2:  For a Lark, I am showing the DPR of an alt TWF that uses unmodified damage dice on bonus attack, but gets extra attacks on the bonus attack.  Starts able to use any one handed weapon to keep balance linear.  Not sure what one would do with the Dual Wielder feat though losing half it's benefit, but I couldn't come up with another way to give TWF a benefit.Level 1 - 12, 12.45 crit Level 4 - 13, 13.9 critLevel 6 - 28, 29.8 critLevel 8 - Alt TWF no change from featLevel 11 - 42, 44.7 critLevel 15 - 42, 46.05 critLevel 20 - 56, 61.4 critIf you notice, the base damage of the alternate TWF is exactly 5% more than a Greatsword GWF at each level, making it perfectly linear for base damage.Example of alternate Level 20 TWF mathAlt TWF 4d8+20 + 4d8 = 56, + .15(4d8+4d8) = 61.4Non-Champion Greatsword GWF (20 crit range only)Level 20 - 53.33, 57.55 critMath - 8d6+20=53.33, +.05(33.33) = 55, + .1855(13.333+.417) = 57.55In this way, the TWF stays linear with the Great Weapons straight from level 1, losing some power there, but gaining it later.  Do not forget a TWF loses the bonus attack if he uses second wind, gets less benefit from action surge, and hits for less on opportunity attacks.  However, the TWF can also use the bonus attack to attack while doing another action other than attack, which a GWF could not do.</blockquote>

Verification