Types of Challenges

[FireLance]

In his Adventure Builder article, Wolfgang Baur mentioned various challenges that could be put into an adventure. Essentially (paraphrasing, not quoting):

1. Skill Encounters: Creatures or obstacles that can be defeated by stealth or skill.

2. Pure Combats: No-negotiation, straight-up combats.

3. Magical Challenges: Challenges that can be overcome with a spell, or a spellcaster skill such as Knowledge, Concentration or Spellcraft.

4. Divine Challenges: Challenges that can be overcome with undead turning, Knowledge (Religion), or Knowledge (Nature).

5. Puzzles or Traps: Challenges that can be overcome by the party rogue, or puzzles that the party can solve.

6. Roleplaying Encounters: Challenge that can be overcome by the right social skills, bribes, exchange of services, or clever conversation.

7. Mook Encounters: Combats against many weak foes that play to Cleave and area-effect spells.

8. Bigger Fish: Overwhelming encounters that the party can't handle without serious risk of a total party kill.​

However, the classification of some of these challenges are rather party-role specific. For example, "arcane" and "divine" challenges are meant for arcane and divine spellcasters, "trap" encounters are meant for rogues, "roleplaying" encounters meant for bards, etc.

If you ignored party roles and simply focused on the types of challenges, how many different types can you think of? Offhand, I've managed to come up with the following:

1. Combat: This includes a wide variety of combat challenges, including straightforward fights, battles with creatures using special abilities, mook encounters, etc.

2. Bypass Obstacle: Challenges that can be overcome by skills such as Balance, Climb, Open Lock, Jump, and Swim, and similar spells and abilities.

3. Persuasion: Challenges that can be overcome by skills such as Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate, and similar spells and abilities. Roleplaying encounters can be lumped under this category.

4. Acquire Information: Challenges that can be overcome by skills such as Decipher Script, Gather Information, Listen, Knowledge, Search, Sense Motive, Speak Language, Spot and Spellcraft, and similar spells and abilities. Puzzles can be put under this category.

5. Stealth: Challenges that can be overcome by skills such as Disguise, Forgery, Hide, and Move Silently, and similar spells and abilities.

6. Endurance: Dangers that cannot be detected or avoided (in parties without a rogue or some other character with Trapfinding, traps would fall under this category), and must be mitigated by skills such as Heal and Survival, defensive and curative spells and abilities, or simply by having good saving throws or a large number of hit points.​

Are there any other types of challenges that you can think of?

 

[blargney the second]

I've recently found that every single encounter is better when it combines any two of those building blocks.

 

[howandwhy99]

Unobvious - I think I must use this one almost all the time. There are often an unknowable number of ways to beat this type of challenge (but I try and come up with at least 3 or more beforehand that work). Any of the types aforementioned might lead to success. Winning might even include ignoring the challenge. Unobvious may not be the right word, but recognizing the challenge as a challenge can certainly be part of it. The key to beating these is not to rely on game mechanics, but instead recognize abilities as character strengths rather than challenge beaters. (no predefined way of succeeding)

example: The two surviving members in my game were trapped in a crypt by lizardmen whom they didn't share a common language with. After days searching they finally discovered the bottom of a crevasse leading up and out - only it was high and dangerous to climb barehanded. The climb was a way out, as were others, but the means were unobvious. Three ways out I had determined: (1) Trickery - luring the lizards down then combating them or leading them to known tomb traps, (2) Roleplaying with the lizards without using language (they had a couple things on their side in this instance), and (3) using makeshift pitons with their rope to negate falling damage when climbing the crevasse (there were several "could be used as" pitons in a nearby room).


Dynamic - Typically these are intelligent foe challenges, but they can certainly be environmental or of some other sort. Situations change, their progression dependent upon the party's actions. Staying ahead of the game, sometimes just understanding the consequences of your actions, is a chief priority here for the PCs.

examples: A classic one is angering the thieves guild. The guildmaster uses a variety of resources at his command to take retribution on the offending PCs. His actions change as they escape or cause more damage (or are caught).
- also: getting caught out in the wild during a blizzard (que the Donner Party) is another dynamic ongoing challenge.

 

[Thanee]

I dislike the thought, that a challenge is build to be defeated by specific means.

Challenges just exist, and there are usually multiple ways to get past, the method used only decides upon the chance of success (failure often just means, that other methods have to be used), and the result, which can be more or less beneficial, depending on the circumstances.

Some challenges might not be approachable with certain methods, of course.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Drawmack]

I am, as yet, uncertain of all the advice given in the column - I'll try it out and see what works.

 

[Celebrim]

I also dislike the idea that challenges only have one path 'around' them. Some ways of overcoming a challenge are more obvious, easier, and straightforward than others, but rarely is there only a single way to overcome a challenge.

I would classify challenges as follows:

1) Combat - A challenge most directly overcome by applying the systems combat resolution system. This category generally deserves its own category mainly due to the degree of emphasis most RPG's place on combat resolution. Character ability tends to be the most important part of overcoming the challenge, though a player's tactical ability can play a relatively large role especially if the DM designs the challenge with tactical solutions/problems in mind.
2) Non-combat Character Skill - A challenge which is most directly overcome by using a character's intrinsic non-combat abilities - whether 'skills', ability checks, class abilities, or spells. Player skill is relatively unimportant although in some cases the ability may have to be applied in a creative or unusual way, and collectively these challenges may test a player's ability to manage limited resources. Solving the problem is relatively more difficult than figuring out how to solve the problem.
3) Player Skill - A challenge which is most directly overcome using the player's wit and intelligence - puzzles, riddles, games of skill - and character skill is relatively unimportant (usually providing only hints). Figuring out how to solve the problem is more of a challenge than actually accomplishing it.
4) Roleplaying - A challenge which is most directly overcome by communicating in character with an NPC which is potentially amicable to (or can be tricked into) aiding the PC's (wittingly or otherwise). Often a mixture of character and player skill is required to overcome the problem, as the game referee will generally be unwilling to allow low charisma PC's to easily pass such such challenges regardless of the wit and insight the player has, and on the other hand will generally demand that players of even high charisma PC's 'earn' the right to a test of character ability by performing some minimum ammount of role playing (and will often even then apply a circumstance bonus or penalty based on the quality of the role playing and intelligence of the approach to the problem.)
5) Evasion - A challenge which is most directly overcome by avoiding it, either in running away, stealth, or by simply knowing when to go around and/or avoid a pointless sidetrack.

I think a good adventure presents problems that suggest some combination of the above approaches, with certain problems being more easily overcome with one approach than others. I also, as a personal preference, I prefer challenges which test player ability over ones that test character ability alone. Thus, I tend to like combats in which certain choices are available which reduce the difficulty of the fight, and challenges which are in the form of 'quasi-puzzles' were the brute application of character skill will suffice, but which some insight into the problem by the player will greatly reduce the amount of character skill required and the likelihood of consequential failure.

 

[delericho]

1. Skill Encounters: Creatures or obstacles that can be defeated by stealth or skill.

2. Pure Combats: No-negotiation, straight-up combats.

3. Magical Challenges: Challenges that can be overcome with a spell, or a spellcaster skill such as Knowledge, Concentration or Spellcraft.

4. Divine Challenges: Challenges that can be overcome with undead turning, Knowledge (Religion), or Knowledge (Nature).

5. Puzzles or Traps: Challenges that can be overcome by the party rogue, or puzzles that the party can solve.

6. Roleplaying Encounters: Challenge that can be overcome by the right social skills, bribes, exchange of services, or clever conversation.

7. Mook Encounters: Combats against many weak foes that play to Cleave and area-effect spells.

8. Bigger Fish: Overwhelming encounters that the party can't handle without serious risk of a total party kill.​

As I see it, there are two problems with this list. The first is that it has combined two orthoganal axes: the type of encounter and the difficulty of encounters. The Combat, Mook and Bigger Fish types are all Combat encounters of different EL, IMO.

The second problem is that some of the distinctions aren't really helpful. In particular, the Divine encounters are either Skill encounters or Magic encounters (for turn undead). Traps and Puzzles are distinctly different, with the former probably being a subset of Skill encounters.

I think my list of types is as follows:

Combats

Magic: anything that is solved with the application of a character's magic abilities, be it a spell, turn undead, or similar.

Skill use: anything that is solved by application of the character's non-magic abilities. Usually skills.

Traps: Strictly a subset of skill use, this is important enough to warrant its own category.

Role-play: dealing with obstructive but not outright hostile NPCs of all sorts.

Environmental: dealing with obstructive environmental features, but not necessarily reliant on skill or magic use.

Puzzles: any challenge that is primarily solved by the players themselves, where PC cabailities are largely immaterial.

Naturally, there's a lot of overlap between types. In fact, I agree with the posters who say that most if not all encounters should be solveable by one or more means. For example, dealing with the enemy guards can be combat, role-play or skills, depending on how the players choose to handle the situation.

 

[FireLance]

Naturally, an in-game challenge may have multiple solutions, depending on how the PCs approach them. Perhaps another way to look at my question is to classify the ways in which the PC might tackle challenges. Using my terminology, getting past an ogre guard might be Combat, Bypass Obstacle, Persuasion, or Stealth, depending on the PC's choice, or a failed attempt at Bypass Obstacle, Persuasion or Stealth may result in Combat. In parties with a rogue, traps effectively become a combination of Acquire Information (I changed the category name) and Bypass Obstacle.

One reason why I did not have magic or traps as separate categories is that these are party-role dependent, requiring spellcasters or rogues respectively, which I specifically wanted to avoid.

I also did not include a player skill category because I felt that player skill would affect the way a character would tackle all types of challenges, whether it is deciding on the most optimal combat tactic, or deciding on a persuasion approach.

 

[Celebrim]

One reason why I did not have magic or traps as separate categories is that these are party-role dependent, requiring spellcasters or rogues respectively, which I specifically wanted to avoid.

They are also very much setting and game system dependent.

I also did not include a player skill category because I felt that player skill would affect the way a character would tackle all types of challenges, whether it is deciding on the most optimal combat tactic, or deciding on a persuasion approach.

Nice in theory, but in practice it rarely works that way. Many players build characters to be as situation independent as possible. A well designed character can simply 'brute rules force' thier way through almost any sort of challenge, by doing more or less the same thing over and over again but doing it very well. A balanced party of well designed characters often more or less does this with minimal input or creativity on the part of the player. If it works well, its likely to continue working well. Your average published adventure (to use this as a standard of what most adventures are probably like) consists 80% of material that a well designed party can over come by rince and repeat tactics with very little intelligent input. Player skill (except for the character design itself, which may be cut and paste) hardly comes into play. The optimal combat tactic is pretty much always the thing that your character is designed to do. The extreme case of this is your average 12 year old DM's initial forays into dungeon design - a series of identical 30x30 loosely connected rooms with level stone floors offering good footing and empty of everything but an alert and hostile monster (that always fights to the death) and a pile of randomly generated treasure. These adventures can almost always be solved (and arguably can only be solved) by bringing the battle to the enemy as rapidly and with as much ferocity as can be mustered. Roll initiative.

On the other hand, in the extreme reverse case, a DM that presents as challenges a series of puzzles or riddles may create an adventure which is just as easy (or hard) for a party of 1st level characters as a party of 10th level characters. The build of the characters is then irrelevant.

These are clearly very different styles of game, and the fact that one has to do with combat and the other doesn't has little to do with it. In many horror role playing games, the players are often asked to solve what amounts to a series of riddles and puzzles with the end result of collecting enough information to destroy the otherwise invincible overpowering monster, and an adventure could reasonably consist of nothing more than a series of stealth challenges in which the player did nothing more than roll move silently checks X number of times in the row. Whatever flavor is given to a dice challenge, the fact that you are rolling the dice to overcome the challenge matters less than the fact that rolling the dice is principally how you overcome the challenge.

I don't know if you noticed it or even indeed whether it was intentional, but your breakdown of challenges corresponds pretty closely to the six ability groups in dungeons and dragons.

Combat: Strength based challenges.
Bypass Obstacle: Dexterity based challenges.
Persuasion: Charisma based challenges.
Information Gathering: Perception (Wisdom) based challenges.
Endurance: Constitution based challenges.

Which leaves us with

Stealth: Another dexterity based challenge.

And that reveals the basic problem I see with your system. Stealth is really another form of bypassing an obstacle. What's missing?

You have no intelligence based challenges. You have no puzzles and no riddles.

And the thing is, almost noone that I'm familiar with runs intelligence based challenges as purely or even mainly things to be overcome by dice rolling. Sure, its more 'fair' or more 'pure' to avoid metagaming and solve the riddle or puzzle by having your 18 INT Wizard beat the DC 22 Intelligence check, or whatever, but its less fun to do it that way. That's why puzzles don't fit well into information gathering. Information gathering is what you do to get clues to solving the puzzle, but its not the puzzle itself (of course the reward of a puzzle can be a clue to another puzzle, and often is, just as the reward of a combat is often the letter to the mook from the evil bad guy detailing part of the sinister plan).

The reason that it is less fun to dice your way out of puzzles is that it renders all the challenges of the game more or less the same except for the flavor you give them. If the challenge is beat a DC 25 on the throw of a D20, it hardly matters whether you call it a strength challenge, an intelligence challenge, or a dexterity challenge save which character is best suited to the challenge.

All of which is a long way of saying that I think challenges are differentiated mainly by the sort of skill that the player brings to them, and not the skill that the character brings to them.

You very clearly saw that things like 'magical challenges' and 'divine challenges' weren't particularly good ways of classifying challenges, and kudos to you. But, aren't challenges that depend on the application of a particular character skill nothing more than different ways of saying 'party role specific'. Look at it this way, in many game systems magic is literally just another skill.

 

[FireLance]

Well, I would say that creating a well-designed character is as much an expression of player skill as using it well in a tactical situation, and if a DM chooses to present his players with primarily Combat challenges (or challenges that can be easily overcome through combat), that does not negate the fact that there are other types of challenges.

As for the ability score correspondence of the challenges, I would hesitate to classify Combat as Strength-based, since combat effectiveness depends on a variety of ability scores for different classes (Dexterity for rogues, Intelligence for wizards, Wisdom for clerics, Charisma for sorcerers and bards, etc.).

Bypass Obstacle challenges could be Strength-based (Climb, Jump, Swim), Intelligence-based (Open Lock), or have little to do with ability scores at all (spells such jump, levitate, spider climb and fly).

Acquire Information challenges could also be Intelligence-based (Decipher Script, Knowledge, Search, Spellcraft, bardic knowledge checks) or Charisma-based (Gather Information).

Puzzles I lumped under Acquire Information because I often allow Knowledge, bardic knowledge, or Intelligence checks to reveal clues that make it easier to solve the puzzle (I do recognize this is not explicitly stated in the core rules).

With respect to the issue of "party role specific", what I meant by that was that no specific class would automatically be barred from overcoming any particular type of challenge.