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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ashrym" data-source="post: 9065428" data-attributes="member: 6750235">The bard doesn't gain 2 spells from any list.  The bard gains 1 spell from any list and may choose (or not choose) to replace another spell.  Giving up a spell one list for a spell on another list is a lateral trade, not a gain.  The only thing the bard is gaining at 10th level is adding 1 spell to the spells prepared.  It can come from any list but it's still only 1 spell gained at 10th level.  At that point it's the bard who has the fixed spell while the ranger can swap spells.  If, by your argument, a fixed spell is worse then the ranger has the better ability.A bard casting spells scales better at spell casting because bards use the same spell progression as clerics, druids, sorcerers, and wizards.  Any one of those classes casts spells better than rangers.  So do warlocks and paladins.  Bards don't cast as well as clerics, druids, sorcerers, and wizards because of the skill benefits.  Rangers don't cast as well as warlocks or paladins because of the skill benefits.Magical secrets following spells know progression give one at levels 10, 11, 13, 15, 17, 18, 19, and 20.  It's only 8 spells gained at all from level 10 on.  Many of those secrets are still like to come from the primary spell list because they fit in with the original them of the character.  If a player wanted most of the spells to come from another list then the player would have selected that other list at 1st level.  A ranger gains access to 45 spells of 3rd through 5th level over the same level range because of the ability to swap one out on a long rest.Conjure barrage is a 3rd level spell.  5d8 force damage vs 8d6 fire damage is less damage, but it's force damage and a 60' cone is a  much larger AoE than fireball.  The size of the AoE, damage, and damage type are suitable for a 3rd level spell.Spells are ranked by spell level, not class level.  That's conflating two different things.  Bringing up the level of the ranger ability does not support the argument.  If conjure barrage is bad because it uses slots, then so is magical secrets because they use slots.  Magical secrets doesn't add an extra resource.  The only thing magical secrets does is give a broader initial selection ceases to exist in play once it's been made.Tireless does grant an extra resource, and if the players aren't playing by the rules given with exhaustion then it doesn't make sense to complain about the rules impacted by the decision of those players.  "We aren't playing by the rules and now we're mad because other rules don't cater to our choice"?  WotC developers cannot develop around how players ignore the rules they provided.The idea that fireball is OP because of the area and number of targets total damage argument people use when talking about casters vs melees applies here too.  Hunter's mark and combat options can be good for smaller numbers of opponents but there's no way they do as much damage within the same action economy to many targets.  The same is true for conjure animals.  It doesn't hurt the ranger to add an AoE likeHere's what a comparative list might look like:Bard 101st-level:  detect magic, speak with animals, thunderwave, healing word, faerie fire2nd-level:  lesser restoration, enhance ability, augury3rd-level:  mass healing word, dispel magic, conjure animals4th-level:  polymorph, freedom of movement5th-level:  greater restorationRanger 101st-level:  hunter's mark, detect magic, speak with animals, cure wounds, goodberry2nd-level:  lesser restoration, spike growth, darkvision, spike growth3rd-level:  conjure barrage, conjure animalsAdding 1 more spell from another list and trading one off doesn't mean much.  How is it powerful?  Which spells would you trade on either list?</blockquote>

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