Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ashrym" data-source="post: 7852674" data-attributes="member: 6750235">Lol, I never said warlocks or sorcerers would be bad at it or that I might think a wizard would be the party face.  I find it interesting that you think bards are any more MAD than sorcerers, warlocks, or wizards, however.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />I disagreed that sorcerers and warlocks were nothing more than the party face and damage, or that a wizard's niche is rewriting reality as "god".Twin works with concentration spells.  Heighten lands status effects.  Quicken spell is about action economy and not just dumping another damage spell.  Subtle works with stealth depending on the spell effects and resists being counter spelled.  Twinning haste or levitate can easily be more useful than damage.Warlocks are all about the invocation, and not just the invocations that work on eldritch blast.  Most of the spells on the class list aren't even that good at damage; just eldritch blast.  They pick up fireball by going fiend instead, for example.  It take misty visions on every one and pick up more SLA's as I level.  The 15th level SLA's are all really good.  The Arcanum are going to be soul cage, force cage, dominate monster, and true polymorph.  Or something like that.  They aren't damage. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Damage is something fighters do.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />I will say that if you want a party face, then a rogue with reliable talent does the job better (if built for it) than the warlock or sorcerer, and the bard is just as focused on CHA but also uses class features that pertain to skills more than warlocks or sorcerers too.Sorcerers can do some nova damage well.  It's not all they do.  Warlocks can spam eldritch blast and that's not all they do.  You're limiting them lower than their capability with those concepts.I wasn't even getting into subclasses, but celestial and divine soul are popular in part because they can add spells wizard cannot.  It's about the differences more than the similarities.  If it's outside the realm of this discussion then why did you bring it into this discussion?I don't actually need to look at treant's guide to participate in this discussion.  I'll give you a heads up that it's not okay to tell people directly or indirectly if they can or cannot post.  It's not okay to use language that may imply someone is not qualified to post because of knowledge of a reference.  I'm not sure you meant it that way so I'm going with benefit of the doubt that I may have misinterpreted.If you want to discuss then discuss.  Just keep in mind I don't get upset or angry with people on the internet over a difference of opinion.  I have no trouble going over the strengths and weaknesses of different classes as I see them.</blockquote>

Verification