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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ashrym" data-source="post: 7855029" data-attributes="member: 6750235">Yeah, rangers also have more damage options, skill options, hit points, and armor options.  Those differences are really not demonstrating how the ranger doesn't also cast more spells, know more spells, can have the same spell DC's, or swap out any number of spells during downtime as a spells known class; those are the arguments being given.If the issue is that spell versatility is too close to spell preparation (as argued) then that concern applies to all classes granted the same mechanic.  Looking at it from the similarities to the sorcerer but differences to the ranger isn't an equivalent comparison.  Dismissing rangers because the class is different even though the mechanic and arguments are exactly the same indicates that spell versatility being too close to spell preparation isn't the actual issue.Meanwhile, the wizard does have access to almost every spell the sorcerer does, the sorcerer does not have access to nearly the options the wizard does, the sorcerer is still going to rely on meta-magic to be competitive, and the wizard is still going to run around with more spells prepped and rituals.You are going to have to prove that spell versatility actually turns the sorcerer into an arcane prepared spell caster.  Are you arguing the 1 week work day at this point?Let me repost the spells available at any given time.[ATTACH=full]115859[/ATTACH]Show me how it's possible for a sorcerer to select more spells than the wizard on a long rest at any level, and which spells on the sorcerer list you think might create the issue here that the sorcerer would want to actually trade.  Also, look at the ranger spells known compared to the sorcerer given the UA changes.  That's inline with divine casters, to be sure, but it demonstrates the ranger can actually do the same thing you are concerned about with the sorcerer.According to the PHB fluff they are both manipulating the weave.  The difference is the sorcerer has some innate ability that works with it and the wizard has to study hard.  Magic itself doesn't come from sorcerers.[ATTACH=full]115861[/ATTACH]Rangers, sorcerers, and wizards are all doing the same thing.  They are accessing strands of the weave to make a magical effect.  There's no difference between any of them casting enhance ability but if it's not in the wizard's spell book then there's no difference between the ranger or sorcerer picking it up after a long rest.All you're doing is associating sorcerers with wizards and disassociating rangers from wizards in spite of the mechanic instead of actually looking at the mechanic.  There are situationally useful spells on the ranger list too, so the ability to swap that one spell is still the ability to swap that one spell.The only valid difference is the slower spell progression rangers get for higher level spells, but that doesn't eliminate the useful lower level spells that might get swapped in.</blockquote>

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