[UA] Still can't figure out Gestalt

Creamsteak

Explorer
I've copied the relevant portion of the OGL for Gestalt characters to this page. If anyone can figure out how you handle multi-class saving throws for characters, I'd be very thankful.

Just for some basic examples:
What would a (Fighter/Rogue 2)/(Fighter/Wizard 2)'s saves be?
What would a (Fighter/Monk 2)/(Monk/Wizard 2)'s saves be?
What would a (Monk/Commoner 3)/(Monk/Ranger 3)'s saves be?

Gestalt Characters
In this high-powered campaign variant, characters essentially take two classes at every level, choosing the best aspects of each. The process is similar to multiclassing, except that characters gain the full benefits of each class at each level. If the two classes have aspects that overlap (such as Hit Dice, attack progression, saves, and class features common to more than one class), you choose the better aspect. The gestalt character retains all apsects that don't overlap.

The gestalt character variant is particularly effective if you have three or fewer players in your D&D group, or if your players enjoy multiclassing and want characters with truly prodigious powers. This variant works only if every PC in the campaign uses it, and it results in complicated characters who may overwhelm newer D&D players with an abundance of options.

Building a Gestalt Character
Top make a 1st-level gestalt character, choose two standard D&D classes. (You can also choose any of the variant classes in this book, though youcan't combine two versions of the same class.) Build your character according to the followign guidelines.
Hit Dice: Choose the larger Hit Die. A monk/sorcerer would use d8 as her Hit Die and have 8 hit points (plus Constitution modifier) at 1st level, for example.
Base Attack Bonus: Choose the better progression from the two classes.
Base Saving Throw Bonuses: For each save bonus, choose the better progression from the two classes. For example, a 1st-level gestalt fighter/wizard would have base saving throw bonuses of Fortitude +2, Reflex +0, Will +2--taking the good Fortitude save from the fighter class and the good Will save from the wizard class.
Class Skills: Take the number of skill points gained per level from whichever class grants more skill points, and consider any skill on either class list as a class skill for the gestalt character. For example, a gestalt barbarian/bard would gain skill points per level equal to 6 + Int modifier (and have four times thsi amoutn at 1st level), and can purchase skills from both the barbariand and bard lists as class skills.
Class Features: A gestalt character gains the class features of both classes. A 1st-level gestalt rogue/cleric, for example, gets sneak attack +1d6, trapfinding, 1st-level cleric spells, and the ability to turn or rebuke undead. Class-and ability-based restrictions (such as arcane spell failure chance and a druid's prohibition on wearing metal armor) apply normally to a gestalt character, no matter what the other class is.

A gestalt character follows a similar procedure when he attains 2nd and subsequent levels. Each time he gaisn a new level, he chooses two classes, takes the best aspects of each, and applies them to his characteristics. A few caveats apply, however.
  • Class features that two classes share (such as uncanny dodge) accrue at the rate fo the faster class.
  • Gestalt characters with more than one spellcasting class keep track of their spells per day seperately.
  • A gestalt character can't combine two prestige-classes at any level, although it's okay to combine a prestige class and a regular class. Prestige classes that are essentially class combinations--such as the arcane trickster, mystic theurge, and eldritch knight-- should be prohibited if you're using gestalt classes, because they unduly complicate the game balance of what's already a high-powered variant. Because it's possible for gestalt characters to qualify for prestige classes earlier than normal, the DM is entirely justified in toughening the prerequisites of a prestige class so it's available only after 5th level, even for gestalt characters.

I'm not sure what I need to quote from the book to satisfy the OGL, but I do think I'm required to add this:

OPEN GAME LICENSE Version 1.0a
The following text is the property of Wizards of the Coast, Inc. and is Copyright 2000 Wizards of the Coast, Inc ("Wizards"). All Rights Reserved.

Definitions: (a)"Contributors" means the copyright and/or trademark owners who have contributed Open Game Content; (b)"Derivative Material" means copyrighted material including derivative works and translations (including into other computer languages), potation, modification, correction, addition, extension, upgrade, improvement, compilation, abridgment or other form in which an existing work may be recast, transformed or adapted; (c) "Distribute" means to reproduce, license, rent, lease, sell, broadcast, publicly display, transmit or otherwise distribute; (d)"Open Game Content" means the game mechanic and includes the methods, procedures, processes and routines to the extent such content does not embody the Product Identity and is an enhancement over the prior art and any additional content clearly identified as Open Game Content by the Contributor, and means any work covered by this License, including translations and derivative works under copyright law, but specifically excludes Product Identity. (e) "Product Identity" means product and product line names, logos and identifying marks including trade dress; artifacts; creatures characters; stories, storylines, plots, thematic elements, dialogue, incidents, language, artwork, symbols, designs, depictions, likenesses, formats, poses, concepts, themes and graphic, photographic and other visual or audio representations; names and descriptions of characters, spells, enchantments, personalities, teams, personas, likenesses and special abilities; places, locations, environments, creatures, equipment, magical or supernatural abilities or effects, logos, symbols, or graphic designs; and any other trademark or registered trademark clearly identified as Product identity by the owner of the Product Identity, and which specifically excludes the Open Game Content; (f) "Trademark" means the logos, names, mark, sign, motto, designs that are used by a Contributor to identify itself or its products or the associated products contributed to the Open Game License by the Contributor (g) "Use", "Used" or "Using" means to use, Distribute, copy, edit, format, modify, translate and otherwise create Derivative Material of Open Game Content. (h) "You" or "Your" means the licensee in terms of this agreement.

The License: This License applies to any Open Game Content that contains a notice indicating that the Open Game Content may only be Used under and in terms of this License. You must affix such a notice to any Open Game Content that you Use. No terms may be added to or subtracted from this License except as described by the License itself. No other terms or conditions may be applied to any Open Game Content distributed using this License.

Offer and Acceptance: By Using the Open Game Content You indicate Your acceptance of the terms of this License.

Grant and Consideration: In consideration for agreeing to use this License, the Contributors grant You a perpetual, worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive license with the exact terms of this License to Use, the Open Game Content.

Representation of Authority to Contribute: If You are contributing original material as Open Game Content, You represent that Your Contributions are Your original creation and/or You have sufficient rights to grant the rights conveyed by this License.

Notice of License Copyright: You must update the COPYRIGHT NOTICE portion of this License to include the exact text of the COPYRIGHT NOTICE of any Open Game Content You are copying, modifying or distributing, and You must add the title, the copyright date, and the copyright holder's name to the COPYRIGHT NOTICE of any original Open Game Content you Distribute.

Use of Product Identity: You agree not to Use any Product Identity, including as an indication as to compatibility, except as expressly licensed in another, independent Agreement with the owner of each element of that Product Identity. You agree not to indicate compatibility or co-adaptability with any Trademark or Registered Trademark in conjunction with a work containing Open Game Content except as expressly licensed in another, independent Agreement with the owner of such Trademark or Registered Trademark. The use of any Product Identity in Open Game Content does not constitute a challenge to the ownership of that Product Identity. The owner of any Product Identity used in Open Game Content shall retain all rights, title and interest in and to that Product Identity.

Identification: If you distribute Open Game Content You must clearly indicate which portions of the work that you are distributing are Open Game Content.

Updating the License: Wizards or its designated Agents may publish updated versions of this License. You may use any authorized version of this License to copy, modify and distribute any Open Game Content originally distributed under any version of this License.

Copy of this License: You MUST include a copy of this License with every copy of the Open Game Content You Distribute.

Use of Contributor Credits: You may not market or advertise the Open Game Content using the name of any Contributor unless You have written permission from the Contributor to do so.

Inability to Comply: If it is impossible for You to comply with any of the terms of this License with respect to some or all of the Open Game Content due to statute, judicial order, or governmental regulation then You may not Use any Open Game Material so affected.

Termination: This License will terminate automatically if You fail to comply with all terms herein and fail to cure such breach within 30 days of becoming aware of the breach. All sublicenses shall survive the termination of this License.

Reformation: If any provision of this License is held to be unenforceable, such provision shall be reformed only to the extent necessary to make it enforceable.

COPYRIGHT NOTICE

Open Game License v 1.0a Copyright 2000, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

System Reference Document Copyright 2000-2003, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.; Authors Jonathan Tweet, Monte Cook, Skip Williams, Rich baker, Andy Collins, David noonan, Rich Redman, Bruce R. Cordell, based on original material by E. Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson.



END OF LICENSE
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Creamsteak said:
What would a (Fighter/Rogue 2)/(Fighter/Wizard 2)'s saves be?
What would a (Fighter/Monk 2)/(Monk/Wizard 2)'s saves be?
What would a (Monk/Commoner 3)/(Monk/Ranger 3)'s saves be?

Well, you could do this in two fashions:
Look at each pairing seperately and take the best of each of those pairings. This would then look like:

Ftr/Rog 2// Ftr/Wiz 2

Would have
Fort save +6 (+3 ftr/rog +3 ftr/wiz)
Ref save +3 (+3 ftr/rog +0 ftr/wiz)
Will save +3 (+0 ftr/rog +3 ftr/wiz)

====

Ftr/Mnk 2 // Mnk/Wiz 2
Would have
Fort: +6 (+3 Ftr/mnk +3 mnk/wiz)
Ref: +6 (+3 Ftr/mnk +3 mnk/wiz)
Will +6 (+3 Ftr/mnk +3 mnk/wiz)

and the last combination would be the same as the above.

OR

As it is says "choose the better progression from the two classes" you just look at the progression. SO:

Ftr/Rog 2// Ftr/Wiz 2

Would have
Fort save +4 (+4 ftr 4th)
Ref save +3 (+3 rog 2nd)
Will save +3 (+3 wiz 2nd)

Ftr/Mnk 2 // Mnk/Wiz 2
Would have
Fort: +4 (+4 mnk 4th)
Ref: +4 (+4 mnk 4th)
Will: +4 (+4 mnk 4th)

Monk/Commoner 3 // Monk/Ranger 3

Would be same as a 6th level monks:
+5 on each save.

I think the last method is the correct one, but, you'd have to ask the designers on this one.
 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you still can't to take the same class twice. You couldn't be a monk/fight & monk/rogue, because you already have levels of monk.
 

Ottergame said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you still can't to take the same class twice. You couldn't be a monk/fight & monk/rogue, because you already have levels of monk.


You can be monk/figter on level 1, and on level 2 advance as monk/rogue. You'd now have two levels of monk, one of fighter, and one of rogue
 

Seems fairly simple. You have your choice of classes whenever you go up a 'level'. For each portion of your character that is level dependent you choose the best aspect of those two classes and you get it. If one has a good fort save and the other does not then you get a good fort save, so on and so forth.

Just look at each new level individually, write down everything you would get from each, any overlap choose the better of the two.
 

I'd do is count up the number of levels where at least one of your classes has a good Fort save, then add up all the levels where none of them do. Then use the table (3-1 in PHB) to look up what Fort save you get for each of those numbers, and add them together. Repeat for the other saves of course.

If your levels are:
Ftr+Rog x2, Ftr+Wiz x2

Then you have:
Fort: 4 Good == +4
Reflex: 2 Good, 2 Poor == +3 [+3 +0]
Will: 2 Good, 2 Poor == +3 [+3 +0]

If your levels are:
Ftr+Mnk x2, Mnk+Wiz x2

Then you have:
Fort: 4 Good == +4
Reflex: 4 Good == +4
Will: 4 Good == +4

A Com+Mnk x3, Rgr+Mnk x3 would have 6 Good, so a +5 for all saves.

[I tend to doing this for non-gestalt multiclassing too; it removes the Ftr5/PrC 1 has the Fort save as an 8th level Ftr problem]
 

With Gestalt characters, as any other game in which a lot of multiclassing will come up, I'd strongly recommend using Fractional BAB and Saving Throws.

Then, record your Base Saves and your BAB as a fraction (for actual use, round down as normal). Every level, simply give the better fractional value.

The (Fighter/Rogue 2)/(Fighter/Wizard 2) would go thus:
1: Fighter/Rogue +1 BAB, +2 1/2 Fort, +2 1/2 Reflex, +1/3 Will
2: Fighter/Wizard +1 BAB, +1/2 Fort, +1/3 Reflex, +2 1/2 Will
3: Fighter/Rogue +1 BAB, +1/2 Fort, +1/2 Reflex, +1/3 Will
4: Fighter/Wizard +1 BAB, +1/2 Fort, +1/3 Reflex, +1/2 Will

For a total of +4 BAB, +4 Fortitude, +3 2/3 (round to 3) Reflex, +3 2/3 Will.

For the (Fighter/Monk)/(Monk/Wizard), remember that the Monk's saving throws will simply override everything else. He'll have the saves of a fourth level Monk. For the Base Attack Bonus, he has two levels of Fighter and two levels of Monk-- a +3 BAB.

(Fractionally, it would be +2 BAB from Fighter levels and +1 1/2 BAB from Monk levels.)

The (Monk/Commoner)/(Monk/Ranger) is the same way-- the Monk's saving throws, since all three are good, override anything else. The BAB would similarly be that of a Monk 3/Ranger 3, since Monk is better than Commoner and Ranger better than Monk.
 

Remove ads

Top