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General Tabletop Discussion
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UA: Why 3d6 for the "Bell Curve" variant, instead of 2d10?
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<blockquote data-quote="swrushing" data-source="post: 1398877" data-attributes="member: 14140"><p>I long since came to the opposite conclusion and here's why... </p><p></p><p>3d6 is a linear die, s216 with success and fail values (DC) assigned to those 216 rolls.</p><p>2d10 is a d100, with success fail tags addes to those 100 results.</p><p></p><p>If the outcome is more predictable using d100 or d216 than in d20, it is because more of those 216 outcomes by percentage or more of those d100 outcomes by percentage were assigned that way.</p><p></p><p>For example, someone elsehwere recently complained that the d20 let him roll less than 5 too often... 20% of the time and that made a particular problem when he rolled two such low results in succession.</p><p></p><p>So he was going to 2d10 which made the less than 5 result only occur 6% of the time. Now he was happy.</p><p></p><p>So i asked, "why not just change the DC for that bad event on the d20 to "only on a 1" instead of "on a 1-4"? Then the % chance is 5% and you did not suddenly change the meaning of every other dc and skill check in the game. Did you really mean to change the spot check odds when you fixed the knockout percentage?"</p><p></p><p>Whether rolling 1d20, 2d10, or 3d6 you can... for the most part, assign a DC or required die roll so that you set the likelihood of something happening to whatever percentage you want. 9+ on 1s20 is 60%. 10+ on 2d6 is 62.5%. the predictability of the OUTCOME OF THE TASk is determined by the success/fail break points you set and not the die mechanic.</p><p></p><p>So, the "its more realistic" is really just saying "i like those odds more."</p><p></p><p>*************</p><p></p><p>The Dark Side of bell Curves...</p><p></p><p>Where does a bell curve fail you?</p><p></p><p>When you have non-perfect world tasks... you know, modifiers. </p><p></p><p>On d20... power attack shifting +1 from to hit drops the chance of a hit by 1 more miss in 20. It adds for this 1 more point to damage.</p><p></p><p>In 2d10, it still adds a flat 1 to damage, but it might drop your chance of hitting by 2% (1 in 50) or by as much as 10% (2 in 20.) Where it falls will not be determined by any normal rhyme or reasons such as "hurts more skill more" or even "hurts more skilled guys less" but by the fairly random "how close to the middle do you need to roll.</p><p></p><p>A +1 sword might add 2 more hits in 20 or it might add 1 more hit in 50. Moreover than benefit will chance from swing to swign.</p><p></p><p>-4 for non-proficiency can be as much as -36 out of 100... 18 in 50... nearly 1/3 of the possible rolls swpet away in one -4... or it might be as low as 14%, a little under 1/7 of the possible rolls swept away... and it will vary from attacker to defender maybe even round to round.</p><p></p><p>When you say "these tools give you a +2" in d20, you know what you are giving out... 2 more chances in 20... but with 2d10, you no longer know. Maybe its almost 4 more chances in 20 and maybe its only 1.</p><p></p><p>Thats why i prefer the linear... i can set Dcs easily enough and i know what my modifiers do to the odds consistently.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="swrushing, post: 1398877, member: 14140"] I long since came to the opposite conclusion and here's why... 3d6 is a linear die, s216 with success and fail values (DC) assigned to those 216 rolls. 2d10 is a d100, with success fail tags addes to those 100 results. If the outcome is more predictable using d100 or d216 than in d20, it is because more of those 216 outcomes by percentage or more of those d100 outcomes by percentage were assigned that way. For example, someone elsehwere recently complained that the d20 let him roll less than 5 too often... 20% of the time and that made a particular problem when he rolled two such low results in succession. So he was going to 2d10 which made the less than 5 result only occur 6% of the time. Now he was happy. So i asked, "why not just change the DC for that bad event on the d20 to "only on a 1" instead of "on a 1-4"? Then the % chance is 5% and you did not suddenly change the meaning of every other dc and skill check in the game. Did you really mean to change the spot check odds when you fixed the knockout percentage?" Whether rolling 1d20, 2d10, or 3d6 you can... for the most part, assign a DC or required die roll so that you set the likelihood of something happening to whatever percentage you want. 9+ on 1s20 is 60%. 10+ on 2d6 is 62.5%. the predictability of the OUTCOME OF THE TASk is determined by the success/fail break points you set and not the die mechanic. So, the "its more realistic" is really just saying "i like those odds more." ************* The Dark Side of bell Curves... Where does a bell curve fail you? When you have non-perfect world tasks... you know, modifiers. On d20... power attack shifting +1 from to hit drops the chance of a hit by 1 more miss in 20. It adds for this 1 more point to damage. In 2d10, it still adds a flat 1 to damage, but it might drop your chance of hitting by 2% (1 in 50) or by as much as 10% (2 in 20.) Where it falls will not be determined by any normal rhyme or reasons such as "hurts more skill more" or even "hurts more skilled guys less" but by the fairly random "how close to the middle do you need to roll. A +1 sword might add 2 more hits in 20 or it might add 1 more hit in 50. Moreover than benefit will chance from swing to swign. -4 for non-proficiency can be as much as -36 out of 100... 18 in 50... nearly 1/3 of the possible rolls swpet away in one -4... or it might be as low as 14%, a little under 1/7 of the possible rolls swept away... and it will vary from attacker to defender maybe even round to round. When you say "these tools give you a +2" in d20, you know what you are giving out... 2 more chances in 20... but with 2d10, you no longer know. Maybe its almost 4 more chances in 20 and maybe its only 1. Thats why i prefer the linear... i can set Dcs easily enough and i know what my modifiers do to the odds consistently. [/QUOTE]
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UA: Why 3d6 for the "Bell Curve" variant, instead of 2d10?
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