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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 6319578" data-attributes="member: 6696971">You may have me on ignore so I'm not sure if you'll get this.&nbsp; However, I'll give it a go.&nbsp; I'm pretty sure in this same post you said that DoaM wasn't a balance concern.&nbsp; It appears that the above is either (a) a complaint about balance or (b) a complaint about the Fighter having horde AoE ability which infringes on MUs.&nbsp; I have to wonder if yourself and&nbsp; [MENTION=6776483]DDNFan[/MENTION] ever experienced the AD&amp;D Fighter or perhaps you both started playing D&amp;D with the 3e Fighter (which was brutally underpowered in every way possible when compared to AD&amp;D Fighters)?&nbsp; The 1e (Weapon Spec + Fighting the Unskilled) and 2e Fighter's (Weapon Spec + WP + Heroic Fray) were absolute terrors against hordes of kobolds and the like (1 HD creatures).&nbsp; 1e Fighters would get an extra attack per level (so a 4th level Fighter was getting 4 attacks/round + their advanced attack rate due to weapon spec!) and 2e Fighters were doubling their main hand attack rate + 1 extra attack!&nbsp; They were absolute meat grinders against hordes and this was at-will!&nbsp; A 4th level 3e Fighter with full investment into the Cleave line can potentially pull this off but they have to hit a much higher AC target number than their AD&amp;D predecessors did.4e Fighters using Reaping Strike (At-Will DoaM - which did nothing against Minions) couldn't dream of touching AD&amp;D Fighter's horde AoE.&nbsp; They have different tools to dominate the battlefield and can control/kill hordes in different ways and be implacable, nigh-indestructible choke points in and of themselves, but they can't chainsaw hordes due to DoaM.&nbsp; The same holds true for 5e Fighters with Great Weapon Spec (DoaM).&nbsp; A 5th level, 5e Fighter with DoaM and spending his 1/encounter AS can kill 3 minions in a round.&nbsp; Compare that to 1e or 2e where Fighters are hitting those mooks 85 % of the time and laying wastes to masses (5 - 6) of them every single round due to the advanced rate of attack.&nbsp; 5e Fighters can't dream of touching the kind of AoE beatdown against a horde of canon fodder that AD&amp;D Fighters could, DoaM or no DoaM.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 6319578, member: 6696971"] You may have me on ignore so I'm not sure if you'll get this. However, I'll give it a go. I'm pretty sure in this same post you said that DoaM wasn't a balance concern. It appears that the above is either (a) a complaint about balance or (b) a complaint about the Fighter having horde AoE ability which infringes on MUs. I have to wonder if yourself and [MENTION=6776483]DDNFan[/MENTION] ever experienced the AD&D Fighter or perhaps you both started playing D&D with the 3e Fighter (which was brutally underpowered in every way possible when compared to AD&D Fighters)? The 1e (Weapon Spec + Fighting the Unskilled) and 2e Fighter's (Weapon Spec + WP + Heroic Fray) were absolute terrors against hordes of kobolds and the like (1 HD creatures). 1e Fighters would get an extra attack per level (so a 4th level Fighter was getting 4 attacks/round + their advanced attack rate due to weapon spec!) and 2e Fighters were doubling their main hand attack rate + 1 extra attack! They were absolute meat grinders against hordes and this was at-will! A 4th level 3e Fighter with full investment into the Cleave line can potentially pull this off but they have to hit a much higher AC target number than their AD&D predecessors did. 4e Fighters using Reaping Strike (At-Will DoaM - which did nothing against Minions) couldn't dream of touching AD&D Fighter's horde AoE. They have different tools to dominate the battlefield and can control/kill hordes in different ways and be implacable, nigh-indestructible choke points in and of themselves, but they can't chainsaw hordes due to DoaM. The same holds true for 5e Fighters with Great Weapon Spec (DoaM). A 5th level, 5e Fighter with DoaM and spending his 1/encounter AS can kill 3 minions in a round. Compare that to 1e or 2e where Fighters are hitting those mooks 85 % of the time and laying wastes to masses (5 - 6) of them every single round due to the advanced rate of attack. 5e Fighters can't dream of touching the kind of AoE beatdown against a horde of canon fodder that AD&D Fighters could, DoaM or no DoaM. [/QUOTE]

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