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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tovec" data-source="post: 6333392" data-attributes="member: 95493">Actually I think this is essential. I think that the speed at which certain things are built is far too quick. Build an entire castle in a month? I heard there was originally supposed to be a graduated system that called for time to build something. So perhaps on turn 1 you start the castle and in turn .. 13 it completes. I believe it was based on both the size and the gold/BP/resources put into it. But once again, as far as I know the rules for this never fully appeared, so I would personally recommend using 3-6 month timeframes and if you feel so inclined then adding in extra lengths for larger buildings.Yes, I have done that. I don't recommend it honestly. This is one of those things that I think works semi-well (super-well if the party is into it, super-poorly if they're not) with most parties and kind of falls apart with a DM. It is a lot of minutia that I think is about 10-20x more work than it is worth. Now there is nothing to say that you can't do it if you get something out of it. Or even that you can't use it as a rough guideline for building something but using NPCs to run a city doesn't feel the way it is supposed to. I don't know how to specifically explain it. It could just be my experience but it lacks a certain something when one person is doing everything. If the players aren't interacting with it then I think it is not very valuable and turns into a large sink of time and energy to get results you could achieve by a little bit of fiat to get them where they work best.You're not crazy. If it is something you find enjoyable go for it. I personally don't think it is worth it and I'd never do it again (for an NPC). But if it's something you like then my experience is irrelevant. Just keep in mind that if you are running 50 years of a city that is A LOT of work, having to calculate build points, loyalty, stability, economics, NPC's scores, roles, unrest. All while new buildings are added in. Add onto this that the kingdom building rules are built for expansion, not for a little town to stay a little town (unless something screws up). Even for starting groups you almost always need a spreadsheet (and a darn good one at that, I'm on my third version) to try and keep track of everything. So, doing that of 600 turns, or even for 60 is going to be a pain in the butt. Some people like that, some people like creating new languages from scratch too, but as a casual DM I have better things that fascinate me and that my players may actually SEE.I think it does a so-so job of simulation. I think it does an amazing job at what it is originally built for, for expansion in the Kingmaker books, to create a small barony through kingdom and to go to war (not so sure on the armies part), but on a smaller scale I'm not so sure. I've used it to create towns that are fairly new when I'm trying to track how much wealth they'd have. And I've used it (to a point then I gave up because the spreadsheet (#2) wasn't able to keep up and I just figured that whatever I put in worked better than what the figures of the kingdom building rules said. I don't need 18 monuments to keep my unrest so low. Heck, I can even (as a DM running the game) survive with a decent amount of civil unrest without the entire kingdom/empire completely imploding - something the rules don't really allow for over an extended period of time. So, it does what it is trying to do fairly well, less good at doing "maintenance" or slower cities/kingdoms.Yeah, that is something you'll have to answer for yourself. Personally, I don't put too much effort into things the players will never see. Things that may come up, or little bits for background that may affect things down the line? Sure. But little things that can be achieved more simply other ways, I chose those other ways 9 times out of 10.If you are just wanting to use the rules for building a city and  placing the buildings - which seems to be your goal - then I don't know.  The rules on that part a kind of murky, they give rules about which  things are good to have, how many are good, what their uses are and even  which can be near what. But none of that really details city  grids/sectors.You can also accomplish this without going through all the effort of running the full rules. A rules-light might work better, use average rolls, figure out a larger timeframe (as discussed) between turns, assign buildings you can afford, lay out your grids and plot down your buildings. I think it would do a decent job at this; starting small with similar buildings near each other. Or with smaller ones near a large central one.I'm not sure honestly. If you are just going for the city arrangement part I'm really not sure how that works out. Please let me know. If you'd do evolving stages of the city creation that'd be even better. I'm really curious how you make this work.</blockquote>

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