Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 105666" data-attributes="member: 2011">You mean like the Water Breathing spell, the Freedom of Movement spell, the Alter Self spell, the drowning rule, the deep water lack of light and increase of pressure rules, and the fast moving water damage rules?The fact is that there are rules for underwater adventuring in the game. They are limited but they are there, specifically for underwater movement.Underwater movement in the game is the ability to swim. Period. If you cannot swim, you are at the mercy of the currents. Hence, if the spell does not give you Swimming movement (even indirectly by increasing your base walking speed), you do not get it beyond your normal Swim capability.Remember, I prefaced all of my answers with "I will take a literal interpretation of the rules".Granted, there are not rules about certain spells underwater such as Fireball or Teleport. So, the only thing you can do is make a ruling. Personally, going with the literal interpretation, I would rule that these spells work normally underwater because it is magic and magic can defy the laws of physics.I do not literally rule this way for Fly because they do have underwater movement rules and Fly is a physical movement spell. Since they did not invoke the underwater movement rules for Fly, I rule that you cannot do it, just like you cannot move through the ground (i.e. burrow) with Fly.Also, you do not automatically get to Swim at half of your base Walking speed. It is dependent on water conditions and your ability to swim. If you miss the roll, you go nowhere. Hence, swimming is not an automatic ability of characters. So, why should it be an automatic ability of the Fly spell if not listed at all?Now, having said this, I also think that a Telekinesis spell would allow movement through water, even if used to move a character. The reason is that Fly is a “physical speed movement spell” whereas Telekinesis is a spell which moves an object or character, but not by changing the speed of the character and not via the control of the character. A subtle distinction. Remember, the Fly spell itself indicates that it “requires as much concentration as walking, …” and also decreases the Fly Speed of the character based on encumbrance. Hence it uses the Movement Speed and Combat Action rules whereas Telekinesis always moves the character at 20 feet per round, regardless of encumbrance (if it is within the weight limit) and the moving character can still do Full Round Actions, regardless of moving through air or water.I agree with you that underwater movement “should be” allowed with the spell. I disagree that it is necessarily allowed as written in the book.This probably should be in an Intent section since the designers just did not think of it when they wrote the spell. Also, this one is debatable due to the lack of them spelling it out, hence, I will change my position and say that it is ambiguous.</blockquote>

Verification