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<blockquote data-quote="Voadam" data-source="post: 109747" data-attributes="member: 2209">#33 and proposed #34For #33 When does an Invisible attacker turn visible. Here is the rules quote for the invisibility spell&quot;The spell ends if the subject attacks any creature.&quot;and &quot;If the subject attacks directly, however, it immediately becomes visible along with all itsgear.&quot;I would rename the question &quot;When exactly does an invisibility spell end from attacks.&quot; This will obviate the need for distinguishing improved invisibility.Under your best advice I suggest rewording it to say &quot;You turn visible immediately after your first single attack even if you can attack multiple times in a single full attack action.&quot;Argument for: As used throughout the combat section an attack is a single blow. Even a multiple attack full attack action, by definition, has multiple attacks and the spell ends immediately after the first direct attack.Argument against: A full attack action is one full attack, a direct attack and so the spell should end immediately after the whole full attack is resolved.&quot;The effects of becoming visible by attacking&quot; can be a separate issue #34Suggested Best advice: &quot;as soon as a character is visible his target is no longer denied its dexterity bonus (and cannot be sneak attacked).Rules: &nbsp; Attacker Invisible: Melee+2*; Ranged +2/&nbsp; *The defender loses any Dexterity bonus to AC.Argument for: The defender is only denied his dexterity while the character is invisible. There is no rule delaying a defender from regaining their dexterity bonus when conditions such as invisibility no longer apply. Flat-footed is a separate condition with its own specific rules for&nbsp; when the condition of dexterity negation ends.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Voadam, post: 109747, member: 2209"] [b]#33 and proposed #34[/b] For #33 When does an Invisible attacker turn visible. Here is the rules quote for the invisibility spell "The spell ends if the subject attacks any creature." and "If the subject attacks directly, however, it immediately becomes visible along with all its gear." I would rename the question "When exactly does an invisibility spell end from attacks." This will obviate the need for distinguishing improved invisibility. Under your best advice I suggest rewording it to say "You turn visible immediately after your first single attack even if you can attack multiple times in a single full attack action." Argument for: As used throughout the combat section an attack is a single blow. Even a multiple attack full attack action, by definition, has multiple attacks and the spell ends immediately after the first direct attack. Argument against: A full attack action is one full attack, a direct attack and so the spell should end immediately after the whole full attack is resolved. "The effects of becoming visible by attacking" can be a separate issue #34 Suggested Best advice: "as soon as a character is visible his target is no longer denied its dexterity bonus (and cannot be sneak attacked). Rules: Attacker Invisible: Melee+2*; Ranged +2/ *The defender loses any Dexterity bonus to AC. Argument for: The defender is only denied his dexterity while the character is invisible. There is no rule delaying a defender from regaining their dexterity bonus when conditions such as invisibility no longer apply. Flat-footed is a separate condition with its own specific rules for when the condition of dexterity negation ends. [/QUOTE]

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