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Message: <blockquote data-quote="evileeyore" data-source="post: 182456" data-attributes="member: 1768">Hey I don't know if you've covered this as of yet, becuase I really don't have the time to read every single post, however it isn't covered in the Rules Site you've got.Also note it isn't in the FAQ, but Skip seemed reasonably sure I'd missed it somewhere so it may very well have been in a "Sage Advice"...Note Skips answers are in lime.From:   EvilE Posted At:      Thursday, May 2, 2002 11:26 AM Conversation:   Faimiliars and Darkvision Subject:        Faimiliars and Darkvision I'll begin with supporting evidence then state my question. From the PHB on Monks (chapter 3: page 40: paragraph 21 or so): "Perfect Self: At 20th level, a monk has tuned her body with skill and quasi-magical abilities to the point that she becomes a magical creature.  She is forevermore treated as an outsider (extraplanar creature) rather than as a humanoid." on Paladin's Mounts (chapter 3: page 43: paragraph 7 or so): "A paladin's mount is a magical beast, not an animal." on Familiars (chapter 3: page 50: paragraph 8 or so): "A familiar is a magical, unusually tough, and intelligent small animal (see facing page). It is a magical beast, not an animal." From the MM on Magical Beasts (introduction: page 5: paragraph 24 or so): "Magical Beast: Magical beasts are similar to beasts but have supernatural or extraordinary abilities. Unless noted otherwise, magical beasts have darkvision with a range of 60 feet and lowlight vision. Example: displacer beast." on Outsiders (introduction: page 5: paragraph 3 or so): "Outsider: An outsider is a nonelemental creature that comes from another dimension. reality, or plane. Unless noted otherwise, outsiders have darkvision with a range of 60 feet." Now for my question: When a creatures type permanently changes, do they get the inherent abilities of that creature type, unless otherwise noted? No. They get *no* new abilities at all,  magic just affects them differently. Thus when a Monk becomes 20 level and becomes an Outsider, does he gain darkvision with a range of 60 feet? No. Do Arcane Familiars and Paladin's Mounts have darkvision with a range of 60 feet and lowlight vision? No, but since they're animals, they already lave low light vision. I ask because the exclusionary clause is nowhere to be seen, and most D&D enthusiasts seem to disagree with my assumption that they get those abilities, but can't explain why other than "Its the way it works". When a creature's type changes, it just gets a new "label." Have I missed an Errata or FAQ (or even a Sage Advice concerning this)? Yup.Skip Williams RPG R&D As for Monks getting sheilds... I don't see how "traditional" Monks had Sheilds.. I see them as fighters with Improved Unarmed Attack, and very little armor... but I'll leave you with this advice:Skip it.  Monk's really don't need 'em.  If you really want sheilds, make it a PrC or add a feat chain to give it to them...As a side note I do the last.  They must take Sheild Prof (which lets them use sheilds, but they still lose Monk abilities), Shield Training (which lets them Keep all abilities except Flurry of Blows, and suffer no Arcane Mischance-Prereq= Shield Prof), and Sheild Expert (which gives them back Flurry of Blows while "armored" with a sheild, and allows them to not lose the Sheild to AC bonus... Prereq= I'm not sure-my Sword and Fist is currently missing...).A human monk can get all this by 3rd level by the by (I think... I don't remember if Sheild Expert has a BAB)...</blockquote>

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