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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jefe Bergenstein" data-source="post: 3794371" data-attributes="member: 31506">The fact that the monk kind of underperforms in 3e shouldnt be taken as a sign that it should be scrapped for 4e... after all, the fighter is frequently labeled as a weak class, and he's being retolled to be comparable to other classes. It just means that the monk needs a better design. Part of the problem with the 3E monk lies in other editions, when they tried to copy over its mish-mash of abilities directly. The 1st edition monk sucked, hard. I even recall a Dragon magazine article that actualyl declares him an "XP leech" for the party, with its pathetic d4 HP and laughable damage (coupled with a horrendous advancement table). With 4E the monk is potentially poised to become a real contender. The loss of the full attack option means that mobility becomes considerably more useful for those who dont have the pounce special ability, as before the trade of full attack for spring attack just worsened the monk's mediocre damage output. Throw in some good choke holds, improved stunning that actually has a chance of landing on non-wizards, and you have yourself an excellent martial striker. I can definately see why he's not included in the PHB though, as there is already a martial striker (rogue.. possible ranger too) and the monk is less iconic in terms of generic fantasy tropes.</blockquote>