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<blockquote data-quote="LuckyAdrastus" data-source="post: 5264886" data-attributes="member: 82859">The low attack bonus is because [1] they lack fighter weapon talent (+1 attack), [2] spiked gauntlets &quot;only&quot; have a +2 proficiency bonus, and [3] if you want to stick to hide armor, you can only afford a 16 strength, pre-racial (-1 attack compared to 18).So if you compared spiked gauntlets (+2), 16 Strength (+3), no fighter weapon talent (+0) brawler, to a weapon talent(+1), 18 strength (+4), fullblade wielder (+3), you get +5 vs. AC for the brawler, +8 for the weapon talent fighter.&nbsp; If the race has a strength boost, it is +6 vs. AC, and +9 vs. AC.This isn't a flaw with the brawler, just a question of trade-offs.&nbsp; Since you are playing a warforged (str bonus) and don't seem to mind wearing heavy armor (it may even fit your concept better) that already means you can pretty easily afford to start with 18+2 Strength.&nbsp; You have to miss out on fighter weapon talent (though you get other stuff in exchange), and you either have to use spiked guantlets, or re-fluff a +3 proficiency weapon.With spiked guantlets, you'll start with a +7 versus AC (assuming a 20 strength), which is very solid (I think +6 is about average).&nbsp; Re-fluff a +3 weapon and you'll have +8.Note that sticking with spiked guantlets has a benefit you can't re-fluff, which is that both your hands count as empty, so you can grab two guys at once.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="LuckyAdrastus, post: 5264886, member: 82859"] The low attack bonus is because [1] they lack fighter weapon talent (+1 attack), [2] spiked gauntlets "only" have a +2 proficiency bonus, and [3] if you want to stick to hide armor, you can only afford a 16 strength, pre-racial (-1 attack compared to 18). So if you compared spiked gauntlets (+2), 16 Strength (+3), no fighter weapon talent (+0) brawler, to a weapon talent(+1), 18 strength (+4), fullblade wielder (+3), you get +5 vs. AC for the brawler, +8 for the weapon talent fighter. If the race has a strength boost, it is +6 vs. AC, and +9 vs. AC. This isn't a flaw with the brawler, just a question of trade-offs. Since you are playing a warforged (str bonus) and don't seem to mind wearing heavy armor (it may even fit your concept better) that already means you can pretty easily afford to start with 18+2 Strength. You have to miss out on fighter weapon talent (though you get other stuff in exchange), and you either have to use spiked guantlets, or re-fluff a +3 proficiency weapon. With spiked guantlets, you'll start with a +7 versus AC (assuming a 20 strength), which is very solid (I think +6 is about average). Re-fluff a +3 weapon and you'll have +8. Note that sticking with spiked guantlets has a benefit you can't re-fluff, which is that both your hands count as empty, so you can grab two guys at once. [/QUOTE]

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