D&D 5E (2024) Unconfirmed Dark Sun World Book

[Maxperson]

As far as the game's logic goes, "plants" are defined solely as a creature type, and a relatively rare one at that.

Plants as creatures are called out as separate from normal flora, so the definition in the 5e MM includes normal flora that isn't a creature. Spells also call out nonmagical plants that aren't creatures as a thing.

Edit: The 5.5e PHB defines object in the glossary.

"OBJECT
An object is a nonliving, distinct thing. Composite things, like buildings, comprise more than one object. See also "Breaking Objects."

 

[Maxperson]

Defiling is about annihilating the element of Water.

The desiccation of plants is a byproduct of this loss of water.

Possibly plants are a necessary ingredient in the secret formula for magically benefitting from the defilement of Water.

(Defiling is the magical equivalent of nuclear fission.)

It is all about Water. Getting too distracted by plants is missing the point.

That's not RAW.

From the boxed set.

"Defiling

Defilers wield magic with no concern for their dying world: Indeed, defilers are much to blame for Athas's current state. With each spell they cast, defilers draw magical energy from the life force of plants in the vicinity and channel it to their own selfish ends."

It does not say that it draws water. Further, if there are no plants but a lot of water, you won't defile anything. The water will be untouched.

From Defilers and Preservers

"Defilers absorb every bit of life energy they can hold, with the result that the land they tap into is leeched and left barren of nutrients, incapable of supporting plant life. Plants in the defiled area die and turn to ash when the life spark is removed."

"Defilers have turned the once verdant forests and plains of Athas into wasteland. Their predations have left tracts of barren ground lifeless and scarred. The gray and black ash, all that remains of the plants that once grew in the defiled areas, intermingles with the dry dust and blows across the shattered remains of the world. As more land is defiled, fewer plants are left to anchor the soil or to return water to the atmosphere. More land becomes barren every day, and deserts grow larger with each passing year."

The only mention of water is that the plants destroyed by defiling can't return water to the atmosphere.

 

[Yaarel]

From Defilers and Preservers

"Defilers absorb every bit of life energy they can hold, with the result that the land they tap into is leeched and left barren of nutrients, incapable of supporting plant life. Plants in the defiled area die and turn to ash when the life spark is removed."

"Defilers have turned the once verdant forests and plains of Athas into wasteland. Their predations have left tracts of barren ground lifeless and scarred. The gray and black ash, all that remains of the plants that once grew in the defiled areas, intermingles with the dry dust and blows across the shattered remains of the world. As more land is defiled, fewer plants are left to anchor the soil or to return water to the atmosphere. More land becomes barren every day, and deserts grow larger with each passing year."

The only mention of water is that the plants destroyed by defiling can't return water to the atmosphere.

The life energy is the Positive Energy of the Positive Material Plane, which itself is the life sustaining balance of the Four Elements, which is out of balance because of the annihilation of the Element of Water. What was once areas of the Positive Material Plane are becoming the Negative Material Plane. The Elemental Plane of Water diminishes precariously and is on the verge of extinction.

 

[Maxperson]

The life energy is the Positive Energy of the Positive Material Plane, which itself is the life sustaining balance of the Four Elements, which is out of balance because of the annihilation of the Element of Water. What was once areas of the Positive Material Plane are becoming the Negative Material Plane. The Elemental Plane of Water diminishes precariously and is on the verge of extinction.

You're still making stuff up. I just looked through the boxed set and Defilers and Preservers. While the elemental plane of water is mentioned, nothing at all says it is diminished even by a hair. It's hard to diminish the infinite, let alone put it on the edge of extinction.

 

[Yaarel]

You're still making stuff up.

In order to reconcile conflictive ad hoc source texts, it is sometimes necessary to innovate explanations for how things can be true at the same time.

I just looked through the boxed set and Defilers and Preservers. While the elemental plane of water is mentioned, nothing at all says it is diminished even by a hair. It's hard to diminish the infinite, let alone put it on the edge of extinction.

The Feywild of planet Athas is likewise diminishing.

The Shadowfell (The Gray) is expanding.

The deep shadow (The Black) of the Domains of Dread, includes the domain that imprisons Rajaat.

Even tho the Feywild is infinite, like outer space is infinite, the part of it that corresponds to Athas diminishes.

According to 5e24 cosmology, there is sotospeak a border Elemental Plane that corresponds to local terrain, and a deep elemental plane that is mainly the element itself. This local border Elemental Plane of Water is vanishing from Athas. The deep Water Plane is increasingly difficult to access.

The water is gone from planet Athas. Where there was once Endless Sea is now vanishing pockets of silt. It relates to the elemental magic of the Pristine Tower, that accidentally annihilated the ocean long ago. The water continues to vanish. There is almost no water left on the planet. The secret technique that the defilers employ to benefit magically, is also an application of this Pristine Tower magic.

 

[Zardnaar]

You're still making stuff up. I just looked through the boxed set and Defilers and Preservers. While the elemental plane of water is mentioned, nothing at all says it is diminished even by a hair. It's hard to diminish the infinite, let alone put it on the edge of extinction.

Air, Earth, Fire, Water has diminished elemental planes iirc.

Darksun has 2 product eras. Roughly 91-93 and 94-96.

Later stuff they incorporate Prism Pentad stuff, original designers are gone and theyre using freelancers with no oversight.

That's how we got surfing druids. Writer put them in as a joke expecting them to be cut. At that point TSR was falling to pieces and the printed it as is

Good DS product usually dates from first era. The expand the OBS without blowing things up.

Sample books. Dune Trader, Ivory Triangle, Air, Earth, Fire, Water. Dragon Kings even.

Latter books are useless if you're not using metaplot. Eg cerulean wizards.

GenerallyI lean towards OBS with very limited stuff from later books generally the early ones.

You don't need hamfisted retcon for the most part. You're not saying surfing druids dont exist but leave it open for people who like it.

 

[Maxperson]

Air, Earth, Fire, Water has diminished elemental planes iirc.

Darksun has 2 product eras. Roughly 91-93 and 94-96.

Later stuff they incorporate Prism Pentad stuff, original designers are gone and theyre using freelancers with no oversight.

That's how we got surfing druids. Writer put them in as a joke expecting them to be cut. At that point TSR was falling to pieces and the printed it as is

Good DS product usually dates from first era. The expand the OBS without blowing things up.

Sample books. Dune Trader, Ivory Triangle, Air, Earth, Fire, Water. Dragon Kings even.

Latter books are useless if you're not using metaplot. Eg cerulean wizards.

GenerallyI lean towards OBS with very limited stuff from later books generally the early ones.

You don't need hamfisted retcon for the most part. You're not saying surfing druids dont exist but leave it open for people who like it.

I just looked at the boxed set and the Defilers and Preservers products and there's nothing I saw about the elemental planes that mentioned a reduction. Perhaps it was in a novel or other product.

 

[Maxperson]

In order to reconcile conflictive ad hoc source texts, it is sometimes necessary to innovate explanations for how things can be true at the same time.


The Feywild of planet Athas is likewise diminishing.

The Shadowfell (The Gray) is expanding.

The deep shadow (The Black) of the Domains of Dread, includes the domain that imprisons Rajaat.

Even tho the Feywild is infinite, like outer space is infinite, the part of it that corresponds to Athas diminishes.

According to 5e24 cosmology, there is sotospeak a border Elemental Plane that corresponds to local terrain, and a deep elemental plane that is mainly the element itself. This local border Elemental Plane of Water is vanishing from Athas. The deep Water Plane is increasingly difficult to access.

The water is gone from planet Athas. Where there was once Endless Sea is now vanishing pockets of silt. It relates to the elemental magic of the Pristine Tower, that accidentally annihilated the ocean long ago. The water continues to vanish. There is almost no water left on the planet. The secret technique that the defilers employ to benefit magically, is also an application of this Pristine Tower magic.

The water is gone from Athas because of the increased heat from the red sun. Magic calamity caused that, but not specifically defiling magic. Defiling magic takes from life force, not water.

I think your reconciliation is missing some of the historical facts and is off because of that.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

This seems like a conflict between continuity and gameplay, coherence with the lore or flexibility for fun. In my own tabletop I rewrite the lore because like this I enjoy D&D.

I dare to say the sorcerer-kings can produce water if they want, but they would rather to keep the monopoly to control better the population.

If there were an update of truenamer class and incarnum soulmelders, could be allowed in DS? Can truename or other powers to cause defiling?

If a cerulean wizard could travel to the past (it is officially possible) before the creation of the cerulean storms.. could she reload her spell slots?

Would be possile domains of dread within the "Endless-Night"(Shadowfell) with their own sorcerer-kings?

 

[Zardnaar]

This seems like a conflict between continuity and gameplay, coherence with the lore or flexibility for fun. In my own tabletop I rewrite the lore because like this I enjoy D&D.

I dare to say the sorcerer-kings can produce water if they want, but they would rather to keep the monopoly to control better the population.

If there were an update of truenamer class and incarnum soulmelders, could be allowed in DS? Can truename or other powers to cause defiling?

If a cerulean wizard could travel to the past (it is officially possible) before the creation of the cerulean storms.. could she reload her spell slots?

Would be possile domains of dread within the "Endless-Night"(Shadowfell) with their own sorcerer-kings?

Creating water isnt a wizard/psion thing. Traditionally.