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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kerrick" data-source="post: 2584488" data-attributes="member: 4722">We've been kicking around variants to the undead turning system since the first one came out, but no one's been really satisfied with it. So I sat down and started playing around with stuff - opposed Will save vs. cleric's level+Cha didn't work, and my friend suggested just using numbers like the old charts. I looked over the old charts, and I realized something - the numbers are based on the 1E/2E system. That's right, folks, they just ported the tables over, modified them a ltitle bit for d20, and ran with it. Now, the old system used something similar to what I was planning - a cleric attempting to turn an undead of equal CR/level should be around DC 10. After that, it was easy - take the numbers from the new system, use the table from the old system, and voila - new turning system. I also made a rather large change - monsters are based on CR, not HD. Rather than reprint the entire table here, I'll give you a rough idea of what I'm talking about; for anyone interested, I'll attach the Excel sheet to this post.Clr 1 vs. human skeleton (CR 2/3): 7. Vs. wolf skeleton (CR 1): DC 10. Vs. ghoul (CR 2): 13. You get the idea. A Clr 4 can automatically turn a CR >1 undead (the aforementioned human skeleton, e.g.). A Clr 6 can automatically destroy the same skeleton.I also changed the way the turning itself works, slightly. Evil clerics function the same - command/rebuke; a "T" result for an evil cleric is rebuked, and "D" is commanded. Good clerics have turning and positive energy burst. Turning is a cone-shaped burst of holy energy emanating out to 60 ft. The cleric rolls a turning check (1d20+Cha+modifiers); she then turns 1d6+level+Cha of undead (NOT HD, whole monsters) whose numbers she exceeded, starting with the closest ones and working outward. (For example: Laria, Clr 8 (Cha 16), and her friends are facing a dozen human zombies (CR 1/2), 3 ghouls (CR 2), and a specter (CR 7). She makes a turn check and rolls 9 - more than enough to turn all the lesser undead, but not enough for the specter. She rolls 1d6+8+3 (her Cha mod), for a total of 13. Half of the zombies are destroyed and one of the ghouls turned, but the rest (along with the specter) ignore the holy symbol and advances on her and her friends, intent on feeding on their blood and life energy. If the cleric rolls a natural 20, she doubles the number of undead she can turn. On a natural 1, all the undead attack the cleric to the exclusion of others; in addition, she suffers a -4 penalty on her next turn check.Positive energy burst is just that - a burst of positive energy designed to damage undead. As before, the cleric must make a turn check; if she fails to exceed an undead's DC, it remains unaffected (this is designed to prevent low-level clerics from simply blasting away at high-level undead they would normally be unable to turn). The burst has a 30-ft. radius and deals 2d6+level+Cha damage to all undead in the area of effect. The positive energy burst can also be used to damage negatively-charged objects, like evil altars. As above, a natural 20 deals double damage; a natural 1 fails and the cleric takes a -4 penalty to the next check.Modifiers: Things like feats, spells, and hallowed/unhallowed areas can affect the turning check. Simply added the modifier to the DC, as normal. For instance, the DC for Laria to turn a wraith (CR 5) would normally be 7; in an unhallowed area, it would be 11. If Laria had, say, the Empower Turning feat, it would be 3 (I think it's +4).Caveats: This system has not been playtested (we will be using it in our home game, but the situation hasn't come up yet). Since official CRs are notoriously inaccurate, especially, at high levels, I strongly suggest using Upper Krust's CRs for undead if you use this system - it actually balances out a lot better. Comments and criticism are welcome.[Edit: fixed the mistakes pointed out.]</blockquote>

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