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Message: <blockquote data-quote="The_Warlock" data-source="post: 2091014" data-attributes="member: 21215">Hmm, haven't really checked, but the Well room on the site seems to be a simple rehash of the original sraight from the book (secret door, stuff hidden in the room, et al). I too really hope they detail rooms that were never detailed in the original boxes, as I have both of those, and can convert old editions to current fairly well in my brain as the need arises should my PCs descend into the depths.Regarding plausibility, pre-existing abilities, spells, and effects, and NPC intelligence and stupidity factors: I just don't see the problem with Undermountain and similar dungeons. Limits, even ones that encompass the entire locale, provide a challenge to be overcome. Especially if there is a ruling NPC intellect behind the design, it is plausiblle, and even expected that at high levels that such an opponent will protect himself. My PCs have, glyph spells, anti-scrying spells, dimensional barring spells, and would think an opponent stupid, incompetent, or an obvious lure if they didn't defend themselves smartly with at least the baseline things out of the book. As for the concept of the DM only using things out of the core book, or only things that PCs have access to to defend the NPCs, I have no problem that, on a certain scale. But certain villains, and certain locales get the "and it shall work thus" as the hand of god passes over it, as long as it makes sense, there are methods to deal with it, and it is not simply a bad GMs way to "win" the game. I certainly DON'T restrict, remove or hobble my PCs because I am out to get them, and perhaps because of that I don't see it as an issue. Also, on the issue of using specific tied effects in a manner consistent with PC usage, here's my problem. The PCs have themselves to worry about when warding - anywhere from 1 to 8 minds generally able to picth in and set up their defenses, usually on very limited holdings. I have one brain, and if the smart, near epic or epic NPC antagonist reasonably had the time and means to wartd his whole damn dungeon - well, for pity's sake, I only have so much time a week to prepare - let me say "the dungeon is impervious to teleportation magics from outside" as my baseline, knowing that there are reasonable methods to do it, and instead list the exceptions to that as a rule for the singular locale.And as Arnwyn pointed out, its not like there aren't rules and products that support this challenge design philosophy in 3E. I guess my point really is, if it makes sense for the location, adventure, challenge, whatever you want to call that which the PCs aim themselves at, then what the big deal of setting the terrain? In this case, the terrain is a magic that says no to teleport. Just like a real wall prevents people from walking through it. It's terrain, it's describing the battelfield, it encourages and demands tactics. If you can't get the bad guy in his lair because he's got half a brain and warded it up since he's a stay at home villain, figure out how to draw him out, or change the battlefield to your advantage. In that regard it appears to me to be sound design based on possible and plausible use of the system as presented, that brings verisimilitude based on the powers and effects in the game and setting. Saying that X warded Y against scrying is, in my book not heavy handed., Heavy handed GMing, which I define as Player:"I use my widget of power"GM: "Nope"Player: "What? Why not?"GM: "Because I said it doesn't work, because you'll avoid/ruin/imasculate everything I've done, because I wrote this adventure and you have to do it that way, otherwise it doesn't work and all and I don't know how to handle that."Player: What about my Mental Powers of D'oj, or my Fragumon of Glowing?GM: "No, those don't work either."Player: "Ooooohkaybe...I'm leavin..."Besides, I personally would get pretty bored if every major dark lord of the pit was played like he had foot fungus for brains. Damn it, there I go again defending reason and logic. Somebody stop me!</blockquote>

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