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<blockquote data-quote="awesomeocalypse" data-source="post: 4951054" data-attributes="member: 85641">But our perceptions, and logical deductions based on those perceptions, are all we have.To claim that calling one side &quot;good&quot; and one side &quot;evil&quot; doesn't impose a value judgement on those sides strikes me as disingenuous in the extreme. Moreover, if I believe a certain viewpoint is correct, I don't want to have to accept that this viewpoint is &quot;evil&quot; and get stuck arguing why &quot;evil&quot; is good. I'd rather just skip the labels and move right onto evaluating each side on its own merits, without all the &quot;good hat/black hat&quot; labelling.No, I am describing a universe in which the answers are no more or less knowable than the answers in are own universe. Every complaint you level against the system I propose can be levelled against the world as it actually is. &quot;I'm evil but I think evil is good&quot; sounds like something a 14 year old goth would say. Compared to capitalism and communism, or christianity and islam, or pro-choicers and pro-lifers, or israel and palestine, or democrats and republicans, or any other issue I can think of that jumps out at me as actually presenting interesting moral questions, and by comparison &quot;do you think good is good or do you think evil is good?&quot; seems, frankly, infantile.You deduced from my multi-page wall of text detailing my loathing for alignment that I didn't like alignment? Brilliant, Holmes. And how clever of you to manuever me into admitting the point I've been making over and over again. Hooray for you. if we ever sit down to game together, maybe this will actually matter to me.&nbsp;&nbsp;So you admit that alignment as a mechanic is &quot;unfortunate&quot;.&nbsp;Which is why it should never be a mechanic. I have no problem with you using whatever tools you like to play however you want. I'd just prefer that those tools don't become a mandated part of the game for the rest of us.&nbsp;No, but by making alignment a mechanic you render it the default. If it is merely flavor, then those of us who don't find it useful can discard it.&nbsp;It most certainly is a problem if the game involves mechanics whereby alignment will continuously rear its ugly head.&nbsp;&quot;Not to be tolerated&quot; =/= &quot;it shouldn't be imposed via mechanic, and assuming it isn't, then I will personally never use it in a game.&quot;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="awesomeocalypse, post: 4951054, member: 85641"] But our perceptions, and logical deductions based on those perceptions, are all we have. To claim that calling one side "good" and one side "evil" doesn't impose a value judgement on those sides strikes me as disingenuous in the extreme. Moreover, if I believe a certain viewpoint is correct, I don't want to have to accept that this viewpoint is "evil" and get stuck arguing why "evil" is good. I'd rather just skip the labels and move right onto evaluating each side on its own merits, without all the "good hat/black hat" labelling. No, I am describing a universe in which the answers are no more or less knowable than the answers in are own universe. Every complaint you level against the system I propose can be levelled against the world as it actually is. "I'm evil but I think evil is good" sounds like something a 14 year old goth would say. Compared to capitalism and communism, or christianity and islam, or pro-choicers and pro-lifers, or israel and palestine, or democrats and republicans, or any other issue I can think of that jumps out at me as actually presenting interesting moral questions, and by comparison "do you think good is good or do you think evil is good?" seems, frankly, infantile. You deduced from my multi-page wall of text detailing my loathing for alignment that I didn't like alignment? Brilliant, Holmes. And how clever of you to manuever me into admitting the point I've been making over and over again. Hooray for you. if we ever sit down to game together, maybe this will actually matter to me. So you admit that alignment as a mechanic is "unfortunate". Which is why it should never be a mechanic. I have no problem with you using whatever tools you like to play however you want. I'd just prefer that those tools don't become a mandated part of the game for the rest of us. No, but by making alignment a mechanic you render it the default. If it is merely flavor, then those of us who don't find it useful can discard it. It most certainly is a problem if the game involves mechanics whereby alignment will continuously rear its ugly head. "Not to be tolerated" =/= "it shouldn't be imposed via mechanic, and assuming it isn't, then I will personally never use it in a game." [/QUOTE]

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