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<blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 6601814" data-attributes="member: 12731">D&amp;D isn't meant to stage situations where a highly skilled professional tries to do stuff only to fail more often than not. Think about it: assuming you're a thief. Would you really persist in trying to sneak by guards if you failed more than half the time? Of course not. You would consider that strategy unworkable and go buy yourself a pistol and a silencer (or whatnot).But it's worse: a D&amp;D rogue isn't you (or me). You and me, we're unskilled commoners. We have a 50% success rate at DC 10 or so. This is the DC a DM should aim for when the guards are simple low-level humanoids.A DC of 10 or 11 is what the D&amp;D rogue should face, since a 70-90% success rate is what is needed to uphold the idea that she knows what she's doing. A 70-90% success rate is what's required for the party to even try the sneaky-sneaky strategy, instead of just bashing heads, using illusion or charm magic or what have you. And just to reiterate: there's nothing wrong with a DC 16 per se. Sure Bilbo's DC when sneaking by Smaug was this high or even higher. But Smaug isn't a pensioned cop with two granddaughters who just had two donuts instead of just the one.Also: a first level player character can attain a passive perception score of 16. (A Wisdom-based character proficient in Perception gets this). And that's fine too. Because even a first level PC is a hero, while even a third level guard is not. TL;DR: Do not use the &quot;passive score with advantage&quot; +5 bonus lightly, and never to turn run-off-the-mill opposition into a mid-level threat. In 5th Ed, a +5 bonus is insanely huge, and should not be used simply because a guard is &quot;motivated&quot;.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="CapnZapp, post: 6601814, member: 12731"] D&D isn't meant to stage situations where a highly skilled professional tries to do stuff only to fail more often than not. Think about it: assuming you're a thief. Would you really persist in trying to sneak by guards if you failed more than half the time? Of course not. You would consider that strategy unworkable and go buy yourself a pistol and a silencer (or whatnot). But it's worse: a D&D rogue isn't you (or me). You and me, we're unskilled commoners. We have a 50% success rate at DC 10 or so. This is the DC a DM should aim for when the guards are simple low-level humanoids. A DC of 10 or 11 is what the D&D rogue should face, since a 70-90% success rate is what is needed to uphold the idea that she knows what she's doing. A 70-90% success rate is what's required for the party to even try the sneaky-sneaky strategy, instead of just bashing heads, using illusion or charm magic or what have you. And just to reiterate: there's nothing wrong with a DC 16 per se. Sure Bilbo's DC when sneaking by Smaug was this high or even higher. But Smaug isn't a pensioned cop with two granddaughters who just had two donuts instead of just the one. Also: a first level player character can attain a passive perception score of 16. (A Wisdom-based character proficient in Perception gets this). And that's fine too. Because even a first level PC is a hero, while even a third level guard is not. TL;DR: Do not use the "passive score with advantage" +5 bonus lightly, and never to turn run-off-the-mill opposition into a mid-level threat. In 5th Ed, a +5 bonus is insanely huge, and should not be used simply because a guard is "motivated". [/QUOTE]

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