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<blockquote data-quote="Artoomis" data-source="post: 3126100" data-attributes="member: 111">Aboslutely - a sparrow can fly underwater.&nbsp; It's unlikely one ever would because it most likely doesn;t know how to hold it's breath.&nbsp; No&nbsp; herring cannot fly - it has no fly speed.&nbsp; It could swim in the air if the air were siufficiently thick to support it, though.&nbsp; Of course, hampered movement rules [bi]might[/b] apply.I am not using the MotP rule as &quot;pure RAW.&quot;&nbsp; It just a RAW-based good way to handle flying underwater, given that the rules do not otherwise prohibit it but also provide no guidelines for how to apply hampered movement rules for underwater flight.&nbsp; (&quot;Is there anywhere in the entire D&amp;D rule set that specifcally talk about flying underwater - maybe that would apply.&nbsp; Oh, look - there are some rules for the elemental plane of water from MotP, perhaps they would work well.&quot;)There is no reason to look at any other planar rules unless one wants to get an idea of how swimming might work in the air, for example, if such a rule existed for the plane of air (it does not, as far as I know).Arguing about how the plane of air rules affect things is the classic &quot;red herring&quot; - an off-topic side argument that distracts from the main point, but is related to the main point or some other point enough that folks get wrapped up in this side argument.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Artoomis, post: 3126100, member: 111"] Aboslutely - a sparrow can fly underwater. It's unlikely one ever would because it most likely doesn;t know how to hold it's breath. No herring cannot fly - it has no fly speed. It could swim in the air if the air were siufficiently thick to support it, though. Of course, hampered movement rules [bi][i]might[/b][/i] apply. I am not using the MotP rule as "pure RAW." It just a RAW-based good way to handle flying underwater, given that the rules do not otherwise prohibit it but also provide no guidelines for how to apply hampered movement rules for underwater flight. ("Is there anywhere in the entire D&D rule set that specifcally talk about flying underwater - maybe that would apply. Oh, look - there are some rules for the elemental plane of water from MotP, perhaps they would work well.") There is no reason to look at any other planar rules unless one wants to get an idea of how swimming might work in the air, for example, if such a rule existed for the plane of air (it does not, as far as I know). Arguing about how the plane of air rules affect things is the classic "red herring" - an off-topic side argument that distracts from the main point, but is related to the main point or some other point enough that folks get wrapped up in this side argument. [/QUOTE]

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