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<blockquote data-quote="Artoomis" data-source="post: 3129333" data-attributes="member: 111">That is the subject under discussion.&nbsp; Not that not all land movement is regular movement, so not all underwater movement need be &quot;swimming.&quot;How does &quot;fly&quot; work underwater?My analysis shows that it is fairly clear that &quot;fly&quot; does indeed work underwater (FAQ and MotP support that view) in some fashion.Indeed, any time WotC is asked there seems to be no doubt about flying underwater - the question is only over what the rules are for doing so.As I see it there are several basic possibilites:1.&nbsp; Use the &quot;fly&quot; speed in place of &quot;land&quot; speed&nbsp; and use swimming rules.2.&nbsp; Use &quot;fly&quot; rules but with reduced effectiveness of flying (Hampered Movement) - 1/2 or 1/4 move and reduced manueverability seem to be teh ebst choices.3.&nbsp; Disallow &quot;fly&quot; all together with underwater movement.&nbsp; This seems to be the least desirable and most unreasonable approach.As far as I am concerned, the lack of specific rules for how to use fly underwater is a hole in the rules.&nbsp; I do not think the rules were meant to exclude this, and as written, do not exclude this.In my view, the fact that fly &quot;can&quot; be used for movement through the air is most certainly not the same as fly can be used &quot;only&quot; for movement thorugh the air.The latter reading has all kinds of problems, not just prohibiting underwater flight.&nbsp; It would prevent flying through pure oxygen, for example, because that's not &quot;air.&quot;&nbsp; Or poisionous gas, or a vacuum, etc., etc.It may or may not be appropriate to distinguish between magical and natural flight, too.&nbsp; There is precedent for such a distinction.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Artoomis, post: 3129333, member: 111"] That is the subject under discussion. Not that not all land movement is regular movement, so not all underwater movement need be "swimming." How does "fly" work underwater? My analysis shows that it is fairly clear that "fly" does indeed work underwater (FAQ and MotP support that view) in some fashion. Indeed, any time WotC is asked there seems to be no doubt about flying underwater - the question is only over what the rules are for doing so. As I see it there are several basic possibilites: 1. Use the "fly" speed in place of "land" speed and use swimming rules. 2. Use "fly" rules but with reduced effectiveness of flying (Hampered Movement) - 1/2 or 1/4 move and reduced manueverability seem to be teh ebst choices. 3. Disallow "fly" all together with underwater movement. This seems to be the least desirable and most unreasonable approach. As far as I am concerned, the lack of specific rules for how to use fly underwater is a hole in the rules. I do not think the rules were meant to exclude this, and as written, do not exclude this. In my view, the fact that fly "can" be used for movement through the air is most certainly not the same as fly can be used "only" for movement thorugh the air. The latter reading has all kinds of problems, not just prohibiting underwater flight. It would prevent flying through pure oxygen, for example, because that's not "air." Or poisionous gas, or a vacuum, etc., etc. It may or may not be appropriate to distinguish between magical and natural flight, too. There is precedent for such a distinction. [/QUOTE]

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