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<blockquote data-quote="Sacrosanct" data-source="post: 7680385" data-attributes="member: 15700">I think you need to read that again.&nbsp; Lowest level spells are granted by &quot;lesser servants of the cleric's deity.&quot;&nbsp; The religious relationship precondition is directly there.&nbsp; Otherwise by your logic, the cleric doesn't need a deity either until they get access to 5th level spells?&nbsp; That idea is just silly.Either way, your claim that it was fancom that tied paladins to being tied to a deity except 4e is not accurate, since there is plenty of evidence that does tie them to a deity in 1e.&nbsp; They have to ask for forgiveness for their sins (a sin by definition is religiously tied), they have to tithe part of their wealth to religion, and their spell casting is granted by a deity or deity's direct servant.&nbsp; That alone is plenty of information to infer that paladins are holy warriors, and not something fans just came up with on their own.&nbsp; There are no less than three core aspects of a being a paladin that directly tie the class to religion, so saying that it's only the fans who created that relationship seems clearly implausible.*edit*&nbsp; I'll also point out that if a paladin wasn't tied to religion, why would they be required to seek out a clergy member to confess sins?&nbsp; If it was only about being lawful and just, why couldn't they seek out any lawful good person?&nbsp; Why would it HAVE to be a member of a religion?&nbsp; A &quot;sin&quot; is a concept of religion.&nbsp; There are plenty of good and just atheists that can atone for mistakes and not consider them sins (because they don't believe in sin).And why do they have to tithe to a religious institution if it's not about religion, but only good deeds?&nbsp; Why not donate to an orphanage?&nbsp; Why does it have to be a religious organization?&nbsp; Sorry, but all the evidence there points to the fact that paladins are religious in some way.&nbsp; Otherwise those three requirements make no sense at all.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Sacrosanct, post: 7680385, member: 15700"] I think you need to read that again. Lowest level spells are granted by "lesser servants of the cleric's deity." The religious relationship precondition is directly there. Otherwise by your logic, the cleric doesn't need a deity either until they get access to 5th level spells? That idea is just silly. Either way, your claim that it was fancom that tied paladins to being tied to a deity except 4e is not accurate, since there is plenty of evidence that does tie them to a deity in 1e. They have to ask for forgiveness for their sins (a sin by definition is religiously tied), they have to tithe part of their wealth to religion, and their spell casting is granted by a deity or deity's direct servant. That alone is plenty of information to infer that paladins are holy warriors, and not something fans just came up with on their own. There are no less than three core aspects of a being a paladin that directly tie the class to religion, so saying that it's only the fans who created that relationship seems clearly implausible. *edit* I'll also point out that if a paladin wasn't tied to religion, why would they be required to seek out a clergy member to confess sins? If it was only about being lawful and just, why couldn't they seek out any lawful good person? Why would it HAVE to be a member of a religion? A "sin" is a concept of religion. There are plenty of good and just atheists that can atone for mistakes and not consider them sins (because they don't believe in sin). And why do they have to tithe to a religious institution if it's not about religion, but only good deeds? Why not donate to an orphanage? Why does it have to be a religious organization? Sorry, but all the evidence there points to the fact that paladins are religious in some way. Otherwise those three requirements make no sense at all. [/QUOTE]

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