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Message: <blockquote data-quote="steeldragons" data-source="post: 7680784" data-attributes="member: 92511">I can't believe I'm saying this (after the amount of time I put into my Ranger Rehash)...but this kind of has me wanting to redesign my homebrew redesign of the ranger...and is similar/incorporates elements of Quickleaf's homebrew redesign...I can't believe I hadn't really seen/thought of it before...Query: Why is the Warlock the only class to be given a two part choice point to develop their class? You choose a Patron. Then, you chose a Pact. Both of these choices endow features and effect the shaping of the character. Every other class? Choose a subclass. Done.Answer: There is no reason/need they have to be.Ranger solution [possibly THE solution that all of these rewrites and homebrews -including my own- have been missing by some margin, some smaller than others]: Make the development of your Ranger a TWO CHOICE POINT subclass system! Arguably, the ranger could very well be compared at this point in its and the game's history, with Warlocks insofar as they each possess a distinctly specific flavor for doing what they do that is/can be taken in such a variety of directions that one could continue to come up with "subclass options" for a good long time. The plethora of redesigns (and misses) speaks to that. All are well received by some, none are able to endear a majority.Just to follow this [admittedly] hazy/forming idea, if we suppose:General/Base Class : Special Mechanic Class : Special Mechanic w/Particular[specific and inalterable] Story ClassWe can draw the parallels, thusly: Wizard [general/base arcane caster] is to Sorcerer [unique mechanic arcane caster: Metamagic] is to Warlock [unique flavor/story & mechanic, Patron & Pact, respectively, needs 2 choice points]From a resource perspective: Wizard uses "all" spells > Sorcerer use fewer spells + Metamagic > Warlock use fewer spells still, but add individual/extra resource: invocations!Still with me? So, on the flip side of the magic-dependent/[arcane] spell-user coin, we have the weapon-dependent/warriors.Fighter [general/base warrior] is to Barbarian [unique mechanic warrior: Rage] is to ---?---- [unique story/flavor & mechanic, whatever they may be, need two choice points]. Fighter use (melee/weapon) attacks > Barbarian use fewer attacks + Rage > ---?--- use fewer attacks still, but add a individual/extra resource.Yup, "that guy" can be the RANGER! [By all rights, if we were going for pure symmetry, I would say at the very least Paladins and Bards should follow this also...but we're trying to fix the Ranger here. One class at a time. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> ] Sooo...make the Ranger, ironically, more flexible in actual creation by removing/baking in some of their story flexibility into the core class. Give it more moving parts. Add in its own unique resource other classes of its type don't have. What is our model and arcane/magic-user analogue for this? The Warlock class!Baked in/story flexibility: The Patron. The warlock is bound to the patron. The player still has all of the freedom in the world to make your own story. How/Why you met or sought out the patron? What you are seeking out of the relationship? What is the Patron [the DM's purview, imo] getting or seeking out of the relationship? etc...etc... BUT, no Patron? No Warlock.  Moving Parts: The Pact. A secondary layer of flavor/story with additional mechanics. For the bulk of the classes, this is your subclass. How/what you do to fulfill your end of the bargain/relationship with the Patron.  For the warlock, this is Tome, Chain, Blade. I would think for a ranger, three options should more than suffice.Unique Resource other [related] Classes don't have: Invocations. Giving you something akin to the recourse the other classes of your group are known for and yet, something they can not do. Balanced by giving significantly less of the main resource of the class group. In the case of "Arcane spellcasters", this is spells. For the warriors, it would be direct [melee/weapon] attacks.For the Ranger, this could fall into place for us VERY handily...and I daresay is sooooo close to giving almost EVERYbody what they want I can taste it...without needing a huge variety of subclasses.[take all titles/names with a grain of salt, this is all off the top my head/based on the endless versions, rewrites, and arguments we've all seen]Baked in Flavor: What is your ranger's purpose? What is it they direct most of the abilities toward? The core abilities/features you need to do that are defined here. All rangers, it can be agreed, have some level of armor, weaponry, stealth, and general wilderness/survival lore (which includes tracking). We'll call these, for the ranger, a LODGE!Will you belong to...<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">the Lodge of the Guardians: along the edges of/protecting civilization and/or seeking out threats, more need for and access to better armor and training, the most AD&D. Put another way, more/most concerned about "the people."</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">the Lodge of the Hinterlands: farther out in the wild/unknown, more need for survival and self-reliance, the most 3e or the former UA 5e "Spell-less." Put another way, more/most concerned about "the places."</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">the Lodge of the Seekers: the most remote from civilization, not necessarily in the literal, but always figuratively, more need for supernatural lore and know-how, the most this UA 5e. Put another way, more/most concerned about "the [unknown or supernatural] things."</li> </ul>Moving Parts: How do you do what you do? In what way are you fulfilling your purpose? For rangers, since Barbarians already cornered the market on "Paths" and Monks have absconded with "Ways", the Ranger's TRAIL!<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Do you follow along the Trail of the Hunt: add more combat/fighter options, the Hunter-ranger?</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Do you disappear into the dappled shadows on the Trail of the Cloak: add more skills/rogue options, the Scout-ranger?</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Are you initiated in the secrets of the Trail of the Land (overlaps the druid subclass, you say? Why, yes it does!): add more spell-casting/magic options, the Warden-ranger?</li> </ul>You can find Hunter, Scout, and Warden rangers, all, of any Lodge. Just as you can find Blade, Chain, and Tome warlocks of any Patron.Unique Resource: [this is where @<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=20323" target="_blank">Quickleaf</a> has done most of the heavy lifting <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> ] We'll call these, for now, Quickleaf's WILDCRAFTS! These are a variety of "extras", some might be training or learning, some figured out on your own or flavored as innate or supernatural talents: enhanced skills (setting traps, healing poultices, keen senses, etc...), individual magical tricks (scrying lore, talking to animals or plants, darkvision, etc...), animal companions, favored enemies, terrain boons, etc... What is a ranger? Mixed bag. You want a tanking spellcaster with an animal companion? Have at it. You want a battleaxe-wielding spirit-summoning scout? Knock yourself out. Dragon-hunting herbalist slayer? Have fun.TL;DR Model the Ranger after the Warlock...not in magic-use/-origins, of course, but in class structure with separate choice points for the player at creation, as the warlock has "Patron/Pact/Invocations."</blockquote>

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