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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Snapdragyn" data-source="post: 2243647" data-attributes="member: 12432">When UA came out, I rather liked the idea (as I do a lot of the variant rules). I'm now in a campaign that actually uses facing, & I HATE IT HATE IT HATE IT!!!!!Facing basically kills sneak attack when you're against anything with even a modicum of intelligence. Tumble around to the rear (the only area from which you can sneak attack), get a standard attack... & your opponent simply rotates to place you in the flank or front. You will never get a full attack action using sneak attack against an intelligent foe. Never. With the standard rules, a foe with brains can certainly try to move out of flanking, but a) they may not be able to do so because of other factors (terrain, your allies blocking squares) & b) either they 5' & then you can do the same to get back into flanking position, or they draw an AoO to move further. With facing, they simply rotate -- no AoO, & they can force you to take a move action EVERY time.I quit playing my rogue in that campaign because of this, & now find that even my barbarian is handicapped by the facing rules (though not as severely). Kill a foe... yay, Cleave! Oh wait, the second target is in my flank, so I'm making that attack at a penalty because I can't rotate since I already moved this round. Well, at least it isn't a target behind me because then the penalty would be even more severe! If you think Cleave (& Great Cleave) are broken, then I guess it's a good thing, but if you thought they were balanced in the basic rules consider how this is going to nerf them.Movement past foes becomes more of a pain for non-Tumblers. Do I go past at full speed & take an AoO in my flank, or do I move past sideways to avoid giving them that bonus but then I can only move at half speed? :/Finally, I find that facing does not work well with 3.5 square spacing rules. The whole concept of square space for all creatures is based on the idea that they are turning & moving during combat. Facing is based on the opposing idea that they are focusing in one direction & not turning around. Square spacing & lack of facing are logically necessary companion rules, & it just bugs me to see centaurs taking up a 10'x10' area but only facing one way (just as it would bug be to see them in a 10'x5' area with no facing).Certainly my last point can be hand-waved if you're OK suspending a bit of logic, & the movement point can be viewed as part of the package. I would suggest that you think very carefully, however, about just how much power you want to take away from your rogues, & how many feats are being unintentionally nerfed by facing. I'm not going to bother with Great Cleave in that campaign unless we nix the facing (so far the vote is about even, but we bring it up almost every session), & I'd never again play a rogue with facing -- scout for skirmish, or forget the rogue archetype altogether.</blockquote>

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