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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cap'n Kobold" data-source="post: 8196307" data-attributes="member: 6802951">While this misrepresentation of what the people you disagree with are saying has been made before, it is probably worth reiterating:No one seems to be suggesting, what you are trying to claim they are suggesting.A weak goliath is still weaker than most humans Therefore to suggest that those people are saying that "goliaths can't be anything but strong" is  . . . incorrect.Likewise with the other races. A Halfling that is considered clumsy by other halflings only trips over as much as an average human.A player character halfling Str-based fighter is an outlier: they are much stronger than the average goliath.Would you consider a person able to lift 450lbs to be 'strong'?Would you consider a person the size of a child to be able to lift 10 times their body weight to be 'strong'?Likewise with feats of intelligence, etc.Your argument seems to be saying that a person who can lift that 450lbs cannot think of themselves as strong. Only if they can lift 480lbs are they actually 'strong'.If it helps, it is pointed out that the artificer isn't generally creating those gauntlets from scratch over a rest, but is simply making some finishing touches/charging up a project that they a currently had.Likewise, while complex machinery could be a valid way of expressing an artificer, it isn't really what the class is about. Jabbing glowing needles into meridian points on the body, or waving a bone inscribed with runes at their foes can be closer to what it represents.I think the reason that you're not getting an answer as to why it is better is that those people aren't claiming pigeon-holing is better. I think most of the optimisers who would pigeon-hole all halflings as Dexterity-y or Rogue-y based on a mere +1 to rolls are the same ones who want floating ASIs because of the the additional +1 to rolls.I think you might not understand the argument here: That example, that you are claiming people are saying is "literally impossible"? That person taller than a halfling, and weighting three times more? Is lifting over 200lbs less than a halfling could pre-Tashas.To claim that people are saying it is "literally impossible" when it falls well within the bounds of what they are requesting is  . . . false.Whether you made the claim due to not understanding the discussion, or understanding it and deliberately misrepresenting other's wishes, it is still false.The discussion is closer to whether that dedicated weightlifter would be able to lift a bit total weight more if they had put in the same level of training but had not been born with dwarfism. But frankly its a bad example: they are human and thus within the bounds of human ability bonuses.Lets be clear: Peter Dinklage (Tyrion Lannister in the Game of Thrones show) for example, is considerably taller and over twice the weight of a halfling.The pre-Tasha's system tells people that unless your adult size is much smaller than Peter Dinklage's, you will not be able to lift more than 450lbs at the start of your career.Most barbarians are likely of average intelligence. A player of a Barbarian character that chooses to place their low score in Intelligence is simply playing an outlier.</blockquote>

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