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Unearthed Arcana: Gothic Lineages & New Race/Culture Distinction
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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8196627" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>Part of this is a disconnect between how things work and how things are presented. I feel like this is easiest to show with Charisma, so let's pull it up. </p><p></p><p>A 14 Charisma is well above average. It is actually just as Charismatic as a Doppelganger, a shapeshifter whose entire purpose is to deceive others and convince them to do things. Therefore you should be amazing, 14 is an amazing score, higher than most of us would ever have in real life. </p><p></p><p>Let us say that this amazingly charismatic individual wanted to lie to someone, we can call that moderately difficult right? It isn't easy, but it isn't hard either. DC for Moderate is 15. With a 14 Charisma you only have a +2. Meaning that you need to roll a 13 or higher to actually lie to someone and them believe you. That is a 60% chance of failure. </p><p></p><p>In other words, more often than not, you fail at lying to people. Ah, but the solution is easy right? You get training in deception. You become a trained liar, a skill set that con men and grifters perfect that make you better than the average person at lying. So good in fact that they can pull schemes off on hundreds of people without fail. </p><p></p><p>That gets you a +4, meaning you need an 11 or better, meaning you have now brought it to a 50/50 chance that you, a professional liar who is literally trained in the art of deception and have immense charismatic abilities, have a coin flip chance in pulling off even the simplest con job. </p><p></p><p></p><p>And this is the problem. Sure, we can say that a 14 is far above the human average, it is massively impressive... in theory. In practice, with a 14 and proficiency, you are flipping a coin to accomplish even moderate tasks. Want to do something hard? Like sway a crowd? DC 20, total of +4, you would need a 16 or better, or in other words, you have a 75% chance of failing. </p><p></p><p>And then we translate that into AC for combat. With a 14/15 score and a prof of +2, you end up with that same +4, and against a basic AC of 16 (the AC of any 1st level fighter with scale and shield) you have a 60% chance of missing them. You will miss more often than you will hit. </p><p></p><p>So, granted, a person with 15 strength being able to lift above their head 450 lbs is impressively strong... And they will miss 60% of the time in combat against a foe with even starter level gear. Even Goblins have an AC of 15, meaning you have a 50/50 shot to hit them. So, great if you want to be a crane and lift heavy things, sucks if you want to engage in combat, or grapple someone, or try and bend bars, or try and tackle someone, or try and break down any but the weakest and flimsiest of doors. </p><p></p><p>Strong in the way least utilized by the game, weak in all of the others.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 8196627, member: 6801228"] Part of this is a disconnect between how things work and how things are presented. I feel like this is easiest to show with Charisma, so let's pull it up. A 14 Charisma is well above average. It is actually just as Charismatic as a Doppelganger, a shapeshifter whose entire purpose is to deceive others and convince them to do things. Therefore you should be amazing, 14 is an amazing score, higher than most of us would ever have in real life. Let us say that this amazingly charismatic individual wanted to lie to someone, we can call that moderately difficult right? It isn't easy, but it isn't hard either. DC for Moderate is 15. With a 14 Charisma you only have a +2. Meaning that you need to roll a 13 or higher to actually lie to someone and them believe you. That is a 60% chance of failure. In other words, more often than not, you fail at lying to people. Ah, but the solution is easy right? You get training in deception. You become a trained liar, a skill set that con men and grifters perfect that make you better than the average person at lying. So good in fact that they can pull schemes off on hundreds of people without fail. That gets you a +4, meaning you need an 11 or better, meaning you have now brought it to a 50/50 chance that you, a professional liar who is literally trained in the art of deception and have immense charismatic abilities, have a coin flip chance in pulling off even the simplest con job. And this is the problem. Sure, we can say that a 14 is far above the human average, it is massively impressive... in theory. In practice, with a 14 and proficiency, you are flipping a coin to accomplish even moderate tasks. Want to do something hard? Like sway a crowd? DC 20, total of +4, you would need a 16 or better, or in other words, you have a 75% chance of failing. And then we translate that into AC for combat. With a 14/15 score and a prof of +2, you end up with that same +4, and against a basic AC of 16 (the AC of any 1st level fighter with scale and shield) you have a 60% chance of missing them. You will miss more often than you will hit. So, granted, a person with 15 strength being able to lift above their head 450 lbs is impressively strong... And they will miss 60% of the time in combat against a foe with even starter level gear. Even Goblins have an AC of 15, meaning you have a 50/50 shot to hit them. So, great if you want to be a crane and lift heavy things, sucks if you want to engage in combat, or grapple someone, or try and bend bars, or try and tackle someone, or try and break down any but the weakest and flimsiest of doors. Strong in the way least utilized by the game, weak in all of the others. [/QUOTE]
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