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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8196974" data-attributes="member: 6801228">This is another argument that I just can't stand. First of all, is Robin as good as Batman? No. But how good is Robin? Well, he has Superhuman physical attributes. He constantly dodges gunfire, before even training with Batman he lifted a massively thick wooden construction beam, after training he once latched a motorcycle with a grappling hook and held it in place until the hook ripped out of the bike. Toughness wise? Again, pretraining he took a brick to the face swung by two-face, and was only dazed for a second. After training he was tackled off of a building, smashing into a car and rolled off of it to keep fighting. He can casually out fight trained mercenaries and other fighters who tangle with other heroes. I think you get the idea. Robin may not be as good as Batman, but he has been shown to be faster, tougher, stronger and more skilled than just about any real world marine you may want to pick out. He is superhuman. But now to the second point. Mary Sues. No, having a 16 in your highest stat doesn't make you a perfect mary sue who can never fail and is as powerful as Superman. Heck, having a 20 doesn't do that. A 20 strength means that if you don't have proficiency in athletics you can hit a DC 15 50% of the time. Ever seen Superman fail half the time he tries to bust down a wooden door? How about Captain America? How about Hawkeye or Batman? Also, let us say that you have that 20 stat by level 1, that gives you a +7 to hit with your weapons. AC 16, basic starter adventuring gear with scale and shield. You hit about 60% of the time, you still miss 40%. You aren't perfect, you aren't unbeatable. You are barely better than a coin flip. And, you know what? You can still have room for growth. You can still have flaws. I don't understand how this always becomes a question of "but if you have a 16 in your main stat, how do you have any flaws? You need low scores to have flaws" No, you don't. There are literally hundreds of flaws you can have that don't require you to be bad at your primary job. I'm playing a character just now who is brash and impulsive. Those are flaws. They have literally nothing to do with any ability scores. This idea that you need ability score "adversity" to have an interesting character is utter BS.</blockquote>

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