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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8198647" data-attributes="member: 6801228">Three things that you are getting wrong here. 1) You are applying a standard from 45 years ago to a modern product. You can claim that the 5e version of DnD never replaced the 3d6 baseline, but you are wrong. We do not hold that the assumptions of the first edition of the game have carried over into the 5th edition of the game. I should not have to read a product over four decades old to understand how the modern version works, especially since so many things in that old version are now wrong. 2) We were not talking only about ability scores, but literal abilities. The Hungry Jaws ability for Lizardfolks given to every PC. Not a single Lizardfolk NPC or Monster Statblock has it. I even used 5e Tools to look up every named Lizardfolk NPC. Not a single one has that ability. To therefore claim that all NPCs must share all abilities with the PC versions of the races, is not supported by the game itself. And it isn't just Lizardfolk. No Goblin NPC has Fury of the Small. No Hobgoblin NPC has Saving Face. No Kobold NPC has Beg, Grovel and Cower. 3) You made a claim that clearly these Lizardfolk I am referencing are warriors and therefore they would have a higher strength. A common rebuttal, and one I already addressed. Because I didn't just give stats for the warriors, I gave a statblock called "Lizardfolk Commoner" from Ghosts of Saltmarsh. Copied here again in str/dex/con/int/wis/cha orderLizardfolk Commoner -> 15/ 10/ 12/ 7/ 12/ 7Lizardfolk -> 15/10/13/7/12/7This is specifically called out to be a commoner, not a warrior. And yet, still has that 15 strength. In fact the only difference is a 13 con instead of a 12, a bump that actually would not change the modifier at all and has no impact.In fact, using 5e Tools, I noticed something that I went to DnD  Beyond to confirm. We have stats for a Bugbear Gardener, Goblin Commoners, and Kobold Commoners too, from Tales of the Yawning Portal, the Sunless Citadel. Tell me if you notice something. Bugbear -> 15/14/13/8/11/9Bugbear Gardener -> 15/14/13/8/11/9Goblin -> 8/14/10/10/8/8Goblin Commoner -> 8/10/10/10/10/10Kobold -> 7/15/9/8/7/8Kobold Commoner -> 10/10/10/10/10/10Kobold from Icewind Dale -> 7/15/12/8/8/8The Bugbear "warrior" and the Bugbear Gardener (who by the way, neither has long-limbed or powerful build, and the PC version doesn't have Brute) have the exact same stats. But, maybe that is a fluke, maybe the Gardener used to be warrior or something. Interestingly though, the Goblin "warriors" while far more dexterous than their kin, are also less perceptive and less charismatic. Which is odd, isn't it? Being warriors and raiders, perception would be kind of a big deal. And except for that strength, they are all 10'sBut then we get to the kobolds, and everything is thrown out. Kobold "warriors" are much more dexterous, by a lot, but they are also far weaker, frailer, less intelligent, less perceptive, and less charismatic. In fact, 10's across the board is what you would except from a commoner statblock. And then, the Kobolds living in Icewind Dale are not only more perceptive, but noticeably tougher than either the commoners or the base kobolds. And these aren't a new race of kobolds, these are kobolds who live somewhere else, that is all. And what all of this tells us is that, again, no, NPCs are not built with the PCs logic. They aren't even built to be consistent across regions. The commoners can be just as strong or stronger than their warrior counterparts. So this idea that all of a race gets all of their PC options applied to every NPC is just unsupported by the facts. Stat lines can change by having a different profession or living in a different region of the same world. Or they might not change at all. But this universal standard is not in the game. It is an artifact from older editions, not a truth of 5e.</blockquote>

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