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Unearthed Arcana: Gothic Lineages & New Race/Culture Distinction
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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8199696" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>The PHB + 1 Angle is one that I hadn't considered, and that actually makes a lot of sense to me as a potential reason. </p><p></p><p>Because while you keep saying that there design philosophy has been to make new races whenever possible, it really hasn't been. Pretty much every time they reference elves, dwarves, goblins, and orcs in a new setting, they wither reprint them or at most they give a variant. </p><p></p><p>And I think it is fair to look at the books like this as well. </p><p></p><p>PHB -><strong> Dragonborn, Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, Half-Elf, Halfling, half-Orc, Human, Tielfing</strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p>Elemental Evil -> <strong>Goliath, Genasi, Aarcrockra </strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p>Volos -> Goliath (reprint),<strong> Aasimar, Bugbear, Firbolg, Goblin, Hobgoblin, Kenku, Kobold, Lizardfolk, Orc, Tabaxi, Triton, Yuan-Ti</strong></p><p></p><p>Ravnica -> Human (PHB), Elf (PHB), Goblin (Reprint), <strong>Centaur, Loxodon, Minotaur, Simic, Veldalken.</strong></p><p></p><p>Eberron -> Dragonborn (PHB), Dwarves (PHB), Elves (PHB/Sidebar variant), Gnomes (PHB), Goblin (Reprint), Bugbear (Reprint), Hobgoblin (Reprint), Half-Elf (PHB), Hafling (PHB), Human (PHB), Half-Orc (PHB), Orc (Reprint), Tieflings (PHB) <strong>Changeling, Kalashtar, Shifters, Warforged</strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p>Theros -> Human (PHB), Centaur (Reprint), Minotaur (Reprint), Triton (Reprint), <strong>Leonin, Satyr</strong></p><p></p><p>So, I think your hypothesis about the PHB + 1 is dead on. If you are in the PHB, you don't get a new write up usually. IF you were in Volos or Ravnica, you get a reprint. And then if you look back, they rarely repeat concepts after that. There is very little overlap in concept with any of these. </p><p></p><p>Which gets to my second point, and the one that is more a prediction and gut than anything I can back up with evidence. And that is, we've got them all. See, it is really easy to look at the PHB, see Volo's and go "aha, they will create more races, they did it here! And they did it in Eberron!"But the problem is, now that they have those races, they don't need to recreate them. I mean, if you wanted to make the Magic the Gathering Setting of Mirrodin, which is covered in constructs, do you make new races? Or do you adapt the Anvilwrought background, Warforged, and Reborn mechanics instead? </p><p></p><p>I find it very telling that in Theros they made the Anvilwrought a background choice, instead of a race. They could have made space for a new race there, but they went a different route. And I think going forward, since we have already covered so many different options, they are not going to be making as many new races.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Dude, I get that. What you aren't hearing is that if you say "I want to go with the default elf" then you still have to pick a class. You say Elf Wizard is the Archetype, but Elf Ranger is an archetype to. So is Elf Arcane Trickster. Elf Monk. </p><p></p><p>You have declared that Elf Wizard is the archetype, but nothing actually backs that up. That is what Faolyn was trying to get across to you, the guy who wants to play the "archetypical elf" but doesn't want to think about their ability score placement still has to think about their ability score placement. </p><p></p><p>Do you play a High Elf for +1 Int? Does that mean you play a Wizard or an Artificer? </p><p>Do you play a Wood Elf for +1 Wis? Does that mean you play a Ranger or a Monk?</p><p>Do you play Eladrin for +1 Cha? Does that mean you play a Warlock or a Bard or a Sorcerer? </p><p>Do you play a Sea Elf or a Shadar-Kai for +1 Con? Does that mean you want to play a ranged character, a rogue or something else? </p><p></p><p>It is actually almost hilarious to use elves for this example, because the only score you can't increase via elf is Strength.</p><p></p><p>And sure, maybe you pick you class first. You want to play a fighter. </p><p></p><p>Do you want to be melee or ranged? </p><p></p><p>Ranged fighters can be archetypical for elves, halflings, goblins, kobolds, bugbears, tabaxi, human, half-elf, changeling, warforged, air genasi, satyrs</p><p></p><p>Melee fighters can be archetypical for Orcs, half-orc, human, dragonborn, minotaur, goliath, firbolg, warforged, half-elf, changeling, earth genasi, leonin, </p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm not trying to say you are wrong that some people don't care and just pick things, but you are also trying to sell that they don't care and pick things, while simultaneously finding it too much work to just pick ASIs, because they want to play for or against type without having to choose. And I think it is fair to question that assertion when you remember that the ASIs alone have overlap with multiple classes.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 8199696, member: 6801228"] The PHB + 1 Angle is one that I hadn't considered, and that actually makes a lot of sense to me as a potential reason. Because while you keep saying that there design philosophy has been to make new races whenever possible, it really hasn't been. Pretty much every time they reference elves, dwarves, goblins, and orcs in a new setting, they wither reprint them or at most they give a variant. And I think it is fair to look at the books like this as well. PHB ->[B] Dragonborn, Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, Half-Elf, Halfling, half-Orc, Human, Tielfing [/B] Elemental Evil -> [B]Goliath, Genasi, Aarcrockra [/B] Volos -> Goliath (reprint),[B] Aasimar, Bugbear, Firbolg, Goblin, Hobgoblin, Kenku, Kobold, Lizardfolk, Orc, Tabaxi, Triton, Yuan-Ti[/B] Ravnica -> Human (PHB), Elf (PHB), Goblin (Reprint), [B]Centaur, Loxodon, Minotaur, Simic, Veldalken.[/B] Eberron -> Dragonborn (PHB), Dwarves (PHB), Elves (PHB/Sidebar variant), Gnomes (PHB), Goblin (Reprint), Bugbear (Reprint), Hobgoblin (Reprint), Half-Elf (PHB), Hafling (PHB), Human (PHB), Half-Orc (PHB), Orc (Reprint), Tieflings (PHB) [B]Changeling, Kalashtar, Shifters, Warforged [/B] Theros -> Human (PHB), Centaur (Reprint), Minotaur (Reprint), Triton (Reprint), [B]Leonin, Satyr[/B] So, I think your hypothesis about the PHB + 1 is dead on. If you are in the PHB, you don't get a new write up usually. IF you were in Volos or Ravnica, you get a reprint. And then if you look back, they rarely repeat concepts after that. There is very little overlap in concept with any of these. Which gets to my second point, and the one that is more a prediction and gut than anything I can back up with evidence. And that is, we've got them all. See, it is really easy to look at the PHB, see Volo's and go "aha, they will create more races, they did it here! And they did it in Eberron!"But the problem is, now that they have those races, they don't need to recreate them. I mean, if you wanted to make the Magic the Gathering Setting of Mirrodin, which is covered in constructs, do you make new races? Or do you adapt the Anvilwrought background, Warforged, and Reborn mechanics instead? I find it very telling that in Theros they made the Anvilwrought a background choice, instead of a race. They could have made space for a new race there, but they went a different route. And I think going forward, since we have already covered so many different options, they are not going to be making as many new races. Dude, I get that. What you aren't hearing is that if you say "I want to go with the default elf" then you still have to pick a class. You say Elf Wizard is the Archetype, but Elf Ranger is an archetype to. So is Elf Arcane Trickster. Elf Monk. You have declared that Elf Wizard is the archetype, but nothing actually backs that up. That is what Faolyn was trying to get across to you, the guy who wants to play the "archetypical elf" but doesn't want to think about their ability score placement still has to think about their ability score placement. Do you play a High Elf for +1 Int? Does that mean you play a Wizard or an Artificer? Do you play a Wood Elf for +1 Wis? Does that mean you play a Ranger or a Monk? Do you play Eladrin for +1 Cha? Does that mean you play a Warlock or a Bard or a Sorcerer? Do you play a Sea Elf or a Shadar-Kai for +1 Con? Does that mean you want to play a ranged character, a rogue or something else? It is actually almost hilarious to use elves for this example, because the only score you can't increase via elf is Strength. And sure, maybe you pick you class first. You want to play a fighter. Do you want to be melee or ranged? Ranged fighters can be archetypical for elves, halflings, goblins, kobolds, bugbears, tabaxi, human, half-elf, changeling, warforged, air genasi, satyrs Melee fighters can be archetypical for Orcs, half-orc, human, dragonborn, minotaur, goliath, firbolg, warforged, half-elf, changeling, earth genasi, leonin, I'm not trying to say you are wrong that some people don't care and just pick things, but you are also trying to sell that they don't care and pick things, while simultaneously finding it too much work to just pick ASIs, because they want to play for or against type without having to choose. And I think it is fair to question that assertion when you remember that the ASIs alone have overlap with multiple classes. [/QUOTE]
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