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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8203483" data-attributes="member: 6801228">Okay, but then which is it? Can you depict a race without those Traits? Or do you absolutely need those Traits to depict that race? Because now we have people arguing it both ways. That of course you can depict them without the Racial traits and ASIs, but that if you take away racial ASIs all of the NPCs are fundamentally changed as a race because those Racial ASIs helped depict them as they adjusted all of those blocks. But if you didn't need to adjust the blocks, then their depiction hasn't actually changed.But you just said you don't need to use the racial traits and ASIs to depict a race. And this is the circle. People point to the fact that this chart exists, and therefore PC ASIs must be applied to all NPCs of the same race. Then we point out that those ASIs don't match the PC ASIs, and that NPCs are not required to have those traits anyways, it was just a suggestion. Then the other side says that the fact that they don't match doesn't indicate that NPCs and PCs can be different, only that the designers redesigned every single race that had been released from the DMG version. Which, since they didn't redesign the Monster Manual, again actually leads credence to the fact that NPCs and PCs are treated differently. Because in every metric we can measure, they are different. Or just a way to avoid a dozen subraces. I mean, let us not forget "Elf" here. Elves get +2 Dex, then they could have a +1 to wisdom, intelligence, charisma or Constitution. That is literally any stat except strength, and if the Grugarch had been printed, they would have had +1 strength. So, what is the typical "elf" in that world? +2 Dex and 1 stat of your choice. Now take a race like the Kreen where these Tohr-Kreen[ATTACH=full]133056[/ATTACH]are the same race as these Thri-Kreen[ATTACH=full]133057[/ATTACH]And it gets easy to see how they might say that there is no "typical kreen" since they can vary so vastly.</blockquote>

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