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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8204225" data-attributes="member: 6801228">I have never once seen any say "they are arguing as though it is a house of cards, but it isn't" as a compliment. That seems to be the most circuitous way to say what you meant.You know, I was reading this same debate on a different thread, and a new perspective was shown to me. Since we've argued the "worse at your primary job" angle a lot, let's point out another aspect of the current system. Making the off-beat race feel less like their primary role. This was actually an interesting thing they did.So, take a Rock Gnome and take a Half-Orc. Make them both wizards, use Standard Array. No feats.Rock Gnome Wizard -> str 8 / dex 10 / con 16 / int 16 / wis 13 / cha 12Half Orc Wizard -> str 10 / dex 10 / con 16 / int 14 / wis 13 / cha 12So, is the Half Orc stronger? Yes, but as a wizard who never goes in melee swinging your Quarterstaff at +2 for 1d8+0 is... pathetic. Neither of you will use that option, even with your low INT +4 to hit with a cantrip is far better.Level 4 and level 8, get ASIs, leads to thisRock Gnome Wizard -> str 8 / dex 10 / con 16 / int 20 / wis 13 / cha 12Half Orc Wizard -> str 10 / dex 10 / con 16 / int 18 / wis 13 / cha 12So, still behind, but here is something odd that happens at level 12. The Half-Orc is going to go for 20 INT, right? What does the Gnome do? What happens if they an ASI to Con?Rock Gnome Wizard -> str 8 / dex 10 / con 18 / int 20 / wis 13 / cha 12Half Orc Wizard -> str 10 / dex 10 / con 16 / int 20 / wis 13 / cha 12Now, the Gnome is no longer smarter, but he is tougher than the Half-Orc.  Level 16?Rock Gnome Wizard -> str 8 / dex 10 / con 20 / int 20 / wis 13 / cha 12Half Orc Wizard -> str 10 / dex 10 / con 18 / int 20 / wis 13 / cha 12Gnome is still tougher. Something they actually use, and the Half Orc is... well, they aren't tougher, they both match in intelligence, and while the Half Orc is stronger, they are still weaker than the Elf Fighter, so they aren't really feeling strong eitherThe thing people advocate for, the banner they hold up is that you are making a trade-off, but in the end, neither one of these characters is strong. And the Gnome is no longer Smarter than the Half-Orc, he is tougher than the half-orc, famed for its toughness.This is the other side of the problem, in working to "catch up" constantly, you end up neglecting anything else. And what you get in exchange is... effectively nothing because you still suck at anything involving strength. You don't feel like a half-orc in anyway, except for your traits, which aren't going to change whether you use Tasha's or not.Edit: and after I posted, I realized something even more amusing. Take it one more time. To 19.Rock Gnome Wizard -> str 10 / dex 10 / con 20 / int 20 / wis 13 / cha 12Half Orc Wizard -> str 10 / dex 10 / con 20 / int 20 / wis 13 / cha 12We know have two characters who are exactly identical... except the Half Orc spent every single level before this behind in an important stat. And the Gnome decided to get rid of their minus one on this last time instead of bumping say, Dex for increased AC. Even though the strength does nothing for them. So, end in the same place... the half-orc just trailed at every single change. So if they end up identical in the end, why not have them start closer together?This is the first time you've mentioned traits, usually it is just feats.And, I'd be hesitant to add too many new traits, because that would run the risk of making characters more powerful. Some need it, like Dragonborn, but I don't think Tieflings really need a lot more traits for your normal game.</blockquote>

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