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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8204503" data-attributes="member: 6801228">You are ignoring the entire point. I used standard array and no feats to simplify it. Removing variables to show the point. You say everyone is equal by level 12? Actually read those stats I put out. Rock Gnome Wizard -> str 8 / dex 10 / con 18 / int 20 / wis 13 / cha 12Half Orc Wizard -> str 10 / dex 10 / con 16 / int 20 / wis 13 / cha 12They aren't equal, the Rock Gnome has gotten tougher. Something that is useful for them as a wizard, as it increases their low hp and their concentration saves. And the Orc is stronger... something utterly useless since they are still likely weaker than the cleric or the fighter, and a +0 is pitiful. Anything requiring strength at this point is going to be done by spells. When do they actually end up equal? Level 19. Rock Gnome Wizard -> str 10 / dex 10 / con 20 / int 20 / wis 13 / cha 12Half Orc Wizard -> str 10 / dex 10 / con 20 / int 20 / wis 13 / cha 12So, since you like declaring what the argument is "really" about, here is a take from me. It is really about making sure Half-Orc wizards are punished by being behind in every stat important to a wizard until 19th level versus letting them start equal and building their character to differentiate themselves via options instead of simply being behind.The fact that you are apologizing now, after this is the fourth time I've brought this up? Maybe I'm letting my personal life get to me, but that doesn't feel true and honest to me. Granted, I'm in a bad spot in my personal life, with lots of BS and betrayals going on, so that could entirely be me, but I've brought this up repeatedly to you and it seems you missed it every other time. And, as I said, I'm leery about adding more traits. I'd like to, there are some cool ideas I've seen, but I am worried about increasing the power level of the races. I think doing so would have to be carefully thought out. For example, I saw an ability for Elven characters which would allow them to make a reaction 5ft move when attacked or targeted by a spell, potentially getting them out of the way of the attack. That is cool, but a reaction "cancel melee attacks" is immensely powerful and would probably be inappropriate outside of very high level characters. Could be a place for variant options though. 4e had "paragon paths" that were related to make each race more unique to its race, things like giving Dragonborn fear and wings, dwarves that took on mountain qualities, ect. An Optional Rule set for allowing 11+ level characters to gain more "racial powers" could balance them out by level gating this stuff. You need to be an 18th level elf before you can start dodging melee attacks as a reaction, and then a 11th level Genasi could become Dual Souled. That is a system I'd get behind.</blockquote>

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