Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Unearthed Arcana: Gothic Lineages & New Race/Culture Distinction
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Arial Black" data-source="post: 8205328" data-attributes="member: 6799649"><p>And all three could have been created using set bonuses and unchanged concepts. The <strong>only</strong> difference is that +3 instead of +2.</p><p></p><p>What's wrong about is misusing what the choice of race gives you for something that does not reflect that race.</p><p></p><p>To me, there is no difference to a halfling claiming a +2 racial bonus to Str is because halflings are a strong race-when they are not-and a 1st level fighter claiming that they should be able to cast wizard spells.</p><p></p><p>Saying "It's not fair that goliaths get +2 Str and halflings don't" is like saying "It's not fair that elves get Darkvision and halflings don't". Every race choice, every character creation choice, gives you what they give you, and <em>don't</em> give you what they <em>don't</em> give you. It's not unfair, you selected those game elements.</p><p></p><p>And it's a self-selected bar for 'effectiveness'; 16 is good enough but 15 is impossible to play as an effective character?</p><p></p><p>Remember, I have absolutely no problem with a halfling (for example) putting 9 points out of their 27 into Str because assigning ability scores is about that individual. Nor have I a problem with choosing ASIs at 4th/8th etc to improvements to Str, because that reflects the things your PC chose to train.</p><p></p><p>But I do have a problem with assigning ability score bonuses from <em>race</em> that are nothing to do with race! Just like I would have a problem giving a fighter features from a wizard just because you'd rather have spellcasting for your fighter than a fighting style.</p><p></p><p>But racial ability score bonuses ARE part of the game's attempt to realise the race's concept in the mechanics, just as much as all the other traits.</p><p></p><p>And, again, I don't believe for a second that races were designed to be certain classes.</p><p></p><p>That's the point; it's not that the racial ability bonuses <em>by themselves</em> are enough, especially since the choice is so narrow (+2, +1 or +0), and neither are the other traits enough by themselves.</p><p></p><p>But ALL the racial traits together-and racial ability score bonuses are just as much a racial trait as Darkvision or wings or whatever-do the job.</p><p></p><p>Having the concept of a strong race (based on size and physiology) <em>without</em> a bonus to Strength would be absurd; bad design at least.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Arial Black, post: 8205328, member: 6799649"] And all three could have been created using set bonuses and unchanged concepts. The [B]only[/B] difference is that +3 instead of +2. What's wrong about is misusing what the choice of race gives you for something that does not reflect that race. To me, there is no difference to a halfling claiming a +2 racial bonus to Str is because halflings are a strong race-when they are not-and a 1st level fighter claiming that they should be able to cast wizard spells. Saying "It's not fair that goliaths get +2 Str and halflings don't" is like saying "It's not fair that elves get Darkvision and halflings don't". Every race choice, every character creation choice, gives you what they give you, and [I]don't[/I] give you what they [I]don't[/I] give you. It's not unfair, you selected those game elements. And it's a self-selected bar for 'effectiveness'; 16 is good enough but 15 is impossible to play as an effective character? Remember, I have absolutely no problem with a halfling (for example) putting 9 points out of their 27 into Str because assigning ability scores is about that individual. Nor have I a problem with choosing ASIs at 4th/8th etc to improvements to Str, because that reflects the things your PC chose to train. But I do have a problem with assigning ability score bonuses from [I]race[/I] that are nothing to do with race! Just like I would have a problem giving a fighter features from a wizard just because you'd rather have spellcasting for your fighter than a fighting style. But racial ability score bonuses ARE part of the game's attempt to realise the race's concept in the mechanics, just as much as all the other traits. And, again, I don't believe for a second that races were designed to be certain classes. That's the point; it's not that the racial ability bonuses [I]by themselves[/I] are enough, especially since the choice is so narrow (+2, +1 or +0), and neither are the other traits enough by themselves. But ALL the racial traits together-and racial ability score bonuses are just as much a racial trait as Darkvision or wings or whatever-do the job. Having the concept of a strong race (based on size and physiology) [I]without[/I] a bonus to Strength would be absurd; bad design at least. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Unearthed Arcana: Gothic Lineages & New Race/Culture Distinction
Top