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Unearthed Arcana: Gothic Lineages & New Race/Culture Distinction
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<blockquote data-quote="Scott Christian" data-source="post: 8205573" data-attributes="member: 6901101"><p>I have asked several times: Show me a character with their traits that you <strong>can't</strong> make using racial ASIs.</p><p></p><p>You can't. So this theory that it gives you more control is not real. (I am not saying you are lying. I am saying you are not looking at the numbers closely.) Make a character with floating ASIs that racial ASIs can't make. The only ones that exist are ones where there is a 16. A +3. An extra +1. Those are the only ones you can't make.</p><p></p><p>No, you made a character. I don't care if you have a 16 or not. The point is you CANNOT make a character with floating ASIs that can't be made with racial ASIs (Except for a 16 in some stats).</p><p>Look at what you created. You can do that exact same thing with point buy and racial ASIs.</p><p></p><p>Here, you can produce the exact same thing with point buy and racial ASIs.</p><p></p><p>I'll say it one more time - the only thing you can't produce with point buy and racial ASIs is a 16 in selected traits.</p><p></p><p>I have never asked nor said anything about building a character that didn't have 16s. Of course, anyone can do it. I am stating the only reason to have floating ASIs (which is the entire topic of our discussion) is to have a 16 in the trait you want. Not because it offers more creativity. It doesn't, unless you want that 16.</p><p></p><p>Remember when I talked about seeing all the knobs on a board? Seeing the big picture? This is why. The half-orc and minotaur have no difference with their racial ASIs. But that is not the only thing that separates them. There are other racial traits. Remember how I discussed there are only so many variables to adjust? This is why.</p><p></p><p>So please. I have to ask. Now you are only using standard array? You understand standard array is just a group created by point buy. So you, who insist this entire thing is about player freedom and the ability to create the character you want - can and choose to only use standard array - the most limiting way to create a character in the game?</p><p></p><p>No one has said that. Certainly not me. That is why I support an optional rule for floating ASIs.</p><p></p><p>The reason I bring it up is this:</p><p>Once a person accepts that it really is about starting with a +3 bonus instead of a +2, it will help them understand that it is important to <em>their</em> game, but not necessarily others. In essence, it will help them understand both sides.</p><p></p><p>I accept both sides. I accept Chaos's experiences at his table. He and I have discussed it in numerous threads. I think even over a year ago. I could not fathom it. But, he truly needs that +3. If he (or other players at the table) don't have it, they lose out on part of the game. His side of needing that +3 is so valid, it is painful. I also accept the other side that wants a difference between their races, and believe ASIs are an important way to do that. They don't need all PCs to start with a +3. Their experiences tell them it doesn't matter. Both sides are valid.</p><p></p><p>You will not accept the 16. You say it is about a player being able to make a character the way they want them. All that does is murky up the water of the other side's reasoning and not allow you to see to the bottom. Because again, anything you create with a floating ASI, I can create with a point buy and racial ASI - except for a 16.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Scott Christian, post: 8205573, member: 6901101"] I have asked several times: Show me a character with their traits that you [B]can't[/B] make using racial ASIs. You can't. So this theory that it gives you more control is not real. (I am not saying you are lying. I am saying you are not looking at the numbers closely.) Make a character with floating ASIs that racial ASIs can't make. The only ones that exist are ones where there is a 16. A +3. An extra +1. Those are the only ones you can't make. No, you made a character. I don't care if you have a 16 or not. The point is you CANNOT make a character with floating ASIs that can't be made with racial ASIs (Except for a 16 in some stats). Look at what you created. You can do that exact same thing with point buy and racial ASIs. Here, you can produce the exact same thing with point buy and racial ASIs. I'll say it one more time - the only thing you can't produce with point buy and racial ASIs is a 16 in selected traits. I have never asked nor said anything about building a character that didn't have 16s. Of course, anyone can do it. I am stating the only reason to have floating ASIs (which is the entire topic of our discussion) is to have a 16 in the trait you want. Not because it offers more creativity. It doesn't, unless you want that 16. Remember when I talked about seeing all the knobs on a board? Seeing the big picture? This is why. The half-orc and minotaur have no difference with their racial ASIs. But that is not the only thing that separates them. There are other racial traits. Remember how I discussed there are only so many variables to adjust? This is why. So please. I have to ask. Now you are only using standard array? You understand standard array is just a group created by point buy. So you, who insist this entire thing is about player freedom and the ability to create the character you want - can and choose to only use standard array - the most limiting way to create a character in the game? No one has said that. Certainly not me. That is why I support an optional rule for floating ASIs. The reason I bring it up is this: Once a person accepts that it really is about starting with a +3 bonus instead of a +2, it will help them understand that it is important to [I]their[/I] game, but not necessarily others. In essence, it will help them understand both sides. I accept both sides. I accept Chaos's experiences at his table. He and I have discussed it in numerous threads. I think even over a year ago. I could not fathom it. But, he truly needs that +3. If he (or other players at the table) don't have it, they lose out on part of the game. His side of needing that +3 is so valid, it is painful. I also accept the other side that wants a difference between their races, and believe ASIs are an important way to do that. They don't need all PCs to start with a +3. Their experiences tell them it doesn't matter. Both sides are valid. You will not accept the 16. You say it is about a player being able to make a character the way they want them. All that does is murky up the water of the other side's reasoning and not allow you to see to the bottom. Because again, anything you create with a floating ASI, I can create with a point buy and racial ASI - except for a 16. [/QUOTE]
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