Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Unearthed Arcana: Gothic Lineages & New Race/Culture Distinction
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8209884" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>"The statblocks are 90% the same, that means they have zero differences, so you can't claim they are different" </p><p></p><p>That is what you are trying to sell me on. My point isn't that they are so wildly different that they are unreconizable, but that in the MM there was only one racial option that was presented as a monster that was also in the PHB, and it still doesn't match up 1 to 1. So to claim that the design clearly intends for them to match up 1 to 1, when the only example of that in practice did not match up... seems like stretching.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Exceeding a baseline means that you do not match 1 to 1 with the presented options. This is like saying that a Dwarf who is immune to poison damage is identical to a dwarf who is resistant to poison damage, because both meet the same lowest common baseline.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The power of CR vs Level is about as relevant as the usage of Fate Points. It has nothing to do with the discussion. Saying that giving them more abilities is fine because they don't have 1st level PC abilities has nothing to do with your claim, or my claim, and is simply a distraction. </p><p></p><p>The DMG says they get the innate spellcasting feature. That gives them Dancing Lights at level 1, Faerie Fire at level 3, and Darkness at level 5. We can infer from the Tiefling that we should use CR to judge if they get those spells. </p><p></p><p>The Drow in the book is CR 1/4. In no world would that be equal to a 5th level character. And yet, they get Darkness. So, the NPC is using different rules than the PC. You can argue that it is 90% the same, but since my argument is only that it is different, you would need to prove that it is identical, not mostly the same, to prove my point incorrect. </p><p></p><p>PC and NPC abilities seem to have always been treated different except when the option was given to use the PHB abilities in homebrew.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sure, you can keep hand-wringing over how now you don't know if by homebrewing the statblocks you are "doing it wrong". Nothing I can say can change the fact that you want to find a paradox here that cannot be resolved, "If I add player abilities am I doing the wrong thing or the right thing" go ahead and worry over that. </p><p></p><p>Me? I note that they didn't change the rules at all. That I've been able to add entire classes and feats to monsters... pretty much whenever I want. Do only PC changelings have Shapechange? Maybe. I guess I have to decide that. I decide that they do. Conflict solved and I can move on with making an NPC shapechanger. </p><p></p><p>Of course, since you need an official answer from an official source, then I can tell you that the Changeling Enemy Statblock in Eberron:Rising from the Last War does have Shapechange. Well, it has Change Appearance, which is almost the same. Oh, and instead of two proficient skills the Changeling got five proficient skills. And it got the Unsettling Visage ability that Changeling PCs no longer get. </p><p></p><p>So, shapechanger yes, more skills and an ability that PCs don't have access to, that is how you make an NPC changeling. I also glanced at the shifter and kalashtar, and surprise surprise, they were also just slightly different. The shifter was especially amusing since it's shifting feature was unlike any shifter in the book.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 8209884, member: 6801228"] "The statblocks are 90% the same, that means they have zero differences, so you can't claim they are different" That is what you are trying to sell me on. My point isn't that they are so wildly different that they are unreconizable, but that in the MM there was only one racial option that was presented as a monster that was also in the PHB, and it still doesn't match up 1 to 1. So to claim that the design clearly intends for them to match up 1 to 1, when the only example of that in practice did not match up... seems like stretching. Exceeding a baseline means that you do not match 1 to 1 with the presented options. This is like saying that a Dwarf who is immune to poison damage is identical to a dwarf who is resistant to poison damage, because both meet the same lowest common baseline. The power of CR vs Level is about as relevant as the usage of Fate Points. It has nothing to do with the discussion. Saying that giving them more abilities is fine because they don't have 1st level PC abilities has nothing to do with your claim, or my claim, and is simply a distraction. The DMG says they get the innate spellcasting feature. That gives them Dancing Lights at level 1, Faerie Fire at level 3, and Darkness at level 5. We can infer from the Tiefling that we should use CR to judge if they get those spells. The Drow in the book is CR 1/4. In no world would that be equal to a 5th level character. And yet, they get Darkness. So, the NPC is using different rules than the PC. You can argue that it is 90% the same, but since my argument is only that it is different, you would need to prove that it is identical, not mostly the same, to prove my point incorrect. PC and NPC abilities seem to have always been treated different except when the option was given to use the PHB abilities in homebrew. Sure, you can keep hand-wringing over how now you don't know if by homebrewing the statblocks you are "doing it wrong". Nothing I can say can change the fact that you want to find a paradox here that cannot be resolved, "If I add player abilities am I doing the wrong thing or the right thing" go ahead and worry over that. Me? I note that they didn't change the rules at all. That I've been able to add entire classes and feats to monsters... pretty much whenever I want. Do only PC changelings have Shapechange? Maybe. I guess I have to decide that. I decide that they do. Conflict solved and I can move on with making an NPC shapechanger. Of course, since you need an official answer from an official source, then I can tell you that the Changeling Enemy Statblock in Eberron:Rising from the Last War does have Shapechange. Well, it has Change Appearance, which is almost the same. Oh, and instead of two proficient skills the Changeling got five proficient skills. And it got the Unsettling Visage ability that Changeling PCs no longer get. So, shapechanger yes, more skills and an ability that PCs don't have access to, that is how you make an NPC changeling. I also glanced at the shifter and kalashtar, and surprise surprise, they were also just slightly different. The shifter was especially amusing since it's shifting feature was unlike any shifter in the book. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Unearthed Arcana: Gothic Lineages & New Race/Culture Distinction
Top