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<blockquote data-quote="Remathilis" data-source="post: 8303357" data-attributes="member: 7635"><p>While the more egregious examples were from earlier in my days, the general group of players I gamed with (and where all of these come from) ranged from mid-teens through to almost thirty. It came mainly from one DM, but other players who played under them also emulated that style, adapting it as they saw fit. It took many years after that group collapsed to realize how toxic the mix had been and how much we took as gospel, like "the DM is always right" and "If the DM isn't happy, nobody's happy" aren't supposed to mean the DM controls every aspect of the game, including your PC. </p><p></p><p>My point was only to say that older D&D (AD&D up through 3.5) relied very heavy-handedly on "DM enforces the role-playing of a class" and when mixed with "DM is God" can empower some antagonistic elements in certain people. Its enabling, because when the DM says, "Your patron is controlled by me, do what I want or I'll cripple your character" and can support it with citing the rulebook, the player ends up in the "my way or highway" as his only options. Personally, a bad DM is going to do stuff regardless of the rules, but I feel a LOT more comfortable if the DM doesn't have the shield of "you did something wrong, now your class is gone!" written in the PHB. </p><p></p><p>So yeah, I have adopted a more "live and let live" method. Extreme faith and training powers a cleric, paladin, or druid, not direct deity intervetion. Likewise, a warlock's gifts, once given, cannot be revoked and it falls to the patron to find other means to enforcing his contract.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Remathilis, post: 8303357, member: 7635"] While the more egregious examples were from earlier in my days, the general group of players I gamed with (and where all of these come from) ranged from mid-teens through to almost thirty. It came mainly from one DM, but other players who played under them also emulated that style, adapting it as they saw fit. It took many years after that group collapsed to realize how toxic the mix had been and how much we took as gospel, like "the DM is always right" and "If the DM isn't happy, nobody's happy" aren't supposed to mean the DM controls every aspect of the game, including your PC. My point was only to say that older D&D (AD&D up through 3.5) relied very heavy-handedly on "DM enforces the role-playing of a class" and when mixed with "DM is God" can empower some antagonistic elements in certain people. Its enabling, because when the DM says, "Your patron is controlled by me, do what I want or I'll cripple your character" and can support it with citing the rulebook, the player ends up in the "my way or highway" as his only options. Personally, a bad DM is going to do stuff regardless of the rules, but I feel a LOT more comfortable if the DM doesn't have the shield of "you did something wrong, now your class is gone!" written in the PHB. So yeah, I have adopted a more "live and let live" method. Extreme faith and training powers a cleric, paladin, or druid, not direct deity intervetion. Likewise, a warlock's gifts, once given, cannot be revoked and it falls to the patron to find other means to enforcing his contract. [/QUOTE]
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