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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 7709331" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>The bolded part explains why it seems we are in disagreement then. The math of these rules is so insanely out of balance with what you would expect to happen or matter, that it makes your proposed scenario not work. </p><p></p><p>A minor difference (20 BR) is all it takes to assure victory. So I’m thinking to myself, perhaps I’m being harsh, and this is only meant to be used when units are relatively close in power. </p><p></p><p>Let’s take a horde of orcs, led on a holy war by their warchief, against… well guards don’t work because @ CR 1/8 they’ll be destroyed by the superior orcs, so let’s go with Thugs or Scouts, your choice, led by a Veteran.</p><p></p><p>399 orcs, 1 BR per 5, so 1/5 BR is 80, plus the CR 4 Warchief brings us to 83. </p><p>399 defenders, 1/5 BR, 80 plus the CR 3 Veteran gives us 82</p><p></p><p>These guys are neck and neck, and we’ll assume equal moral and no walls or other structures to give one side advantage.</p><p></p><p>They both roll. One of two things is about to happen, either one will roll 10 or more than the other, deal 5 damage to that 80 plus hp, and then that defender fails a DC 10 morale roll and immediately dies or the confrontation will end with only 2 or 5 damage done. </p><p></p><p>How long do you think it will take to work out this combat? If we assume DC 10 moral checks are automatically made (not difficult with a few modifiers like “the battle is important” and “I’m well equipped” along with a +3 charisma on our leader figure) then if they deal max damage every round to get to the 40 damage they will need to get the DC 15 morale check will take 8 rounds of combat. </p><p></p><p>If they only deal damage 2 at a time, that becomes 20 rounds of combat. </p><p></p><p>And, that Veteran army we keep throwing around has a BR over 800, meaning you need to do 400 damage to them to break them. That is 80 to 200 rounds of combat.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I couldn’t agree with this more. And at it’s most intense, where the die rolls actually matter instead of just being a formality, that is exactly what this system seems to be. </p><p></p><p></p><p>This works significantly better. I may just steal this for my own use. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Problem is though, any well maintained army is going to have at a minimum a +6 mod on a DC 10 check. </p><p>Or, we give them a +0 and any unit disbands, flees and dies with first contact with the enemy</p><p></p><p>Either Morale removes the need for the combat, or the combat will drag on longer than any other fight in 5e, with less interesting choices for the players to make at any point</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 7709331, member: 6801228"] The bolded part explains why it seems we are in disagreement then. The math of these rules is so insanely out of balance with what you would expect to happen or matter, that it makes your proposed scenario not work. A minor difference (20 BR) is all it takes to assure victory. So I’m thinking to myself, perhaps I’m being harsh, and this is only meant to be used when units are relatively close in power. Let’s take a horde of orcs, led on a holy war by their warchief, against… well guards don’t work because @ CR 1/8 they’ll be destroyed by the superior orcs, so let’s go with Thugs or Scouts, your choice, led by a Veteran. 399 orcs, 1 BR per 5, so 1/5 BR is 80, plus the CR 4 Warchief brings us to 83. 399 defenders, 1/5 BR, 80 plus the CR 3 Veteran gives us 82 These guys are neck and neck, and we’ll assume equal moral and no walls or other structures to give one side advantage. They both roll. One of two things is about to happen, either one will roll 10 or more than the other, deal 5 damage to that 80 plus hp, and then that defender fails a DC 10 morale roll and immediately dies or the confrontation will end with only 2 or 5 damage done. How long do you think it will take to work out this combat? If we assume DC 10 moral checks are automatically made (not difficult with a few modifiers like “the battle is important” and “I’m well equipped” along with a +3 charisma on our leader figure) then if they deal max damage every round to get to the 40 damage they will need to get the DC 15 morale check will take 8 rounds of combat. If they only deal damage 2 at a time, that becomes 20 rounds of combat. And, that Veteran army we keep throwing around has a BR over 800, meaning you need to do 400 damage to them to break them. That is 80 to 200 rounds of combat. I couldn’t agree with this more. And at it’s most intense, where the die rolls actually matter instead of just being a formality, that is exactly what this system seems to be. This works significantly better. I may just steal this for my own use. Problem is though, any well maintained army is going to have at a minimum a +6 mod on a DC 10 check. Or, we give them a +0 and any unit disbands, flees and dies with first contact with the enemy Either Morale removes the need for the combat, or the combat will drag on longer than any other fight in 5e, with less interesting choices for the players to make at any point [/QUOTE]
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