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Message: <blockquote data-quote="FormerlyHemlock" data-source="post: 7701716" data-attributes="member: 6787650">You're arguing that AD&D was more forgiving than 5E (and 3E and 4E, I suppose, but I have no opinion about those because I don't play them) on the basis of solo monsters doing more damage in 5E. Leaving aside the fact that AD&D would also do things like swamp you with the aforementioned horde of twenty or so kobolds at first level, let's just check this claim about hill giants.A 2nd edition Hill Giant does 2d6+7 (14) damage on a hit. A 3rd level fighter has about 3d10+3 HP (sometimes more, sometimes less, but more likely less than more). The hill giant is doing (14/18.5) = 75% of the fighter's HP on each hit. If you go down to zero HP, you're dying and definitely out of the fight for the next week. Severe penallty, easy to get to; it is not improbable that the hill giant will simply kill you outright on the second hit.A 2nd edition fighter in chain mail and shield (AC 4) could expect to last about 2.5 rounds at third level against a hill giant (THAC0 9) before dying messily, or at least getting mission-killed.A 5E Hill Giant does 3d8+5 (18.5) damage, twice. A 3rd level fighter in 5E has about (12+8+8=28 HP). The hill giant is doing 67% of the fighter's HP on each hit, but he gets two attacks, so he can potentially put you down in one round, although it probably won't kill you because a simple Healing Word will get you back on your feet.A 5E fighter in chain mail and shield (AC 19 w/ Defense) could expect to last about 1.5 rounds at third level against a hill giant (+8 to hit) if he expends no resources except HP, which puts him out of it until someone takes an action to get him back on his feet; if he Shields twice and uses Second Wind he can expect to last four rounds; five rounds if he Action Surges a Dodge. (If he gets low on HP he should probably switch entirely to Dodging instead of Attacking, but let's ignore that.)Even in this scenario you've picked, it doesn't appear to me that the 5E fighter is facing a more unforgiving environment than the AD&D fighter. This matches my anecdotal play experience. At third level, my players took on an 18th-20th level Medium challenge (eleven or so umber hulks, eight or so neogi, and an 8th level neogi wizard) with the help of fifteen or so NPC guards that they recruited, and came out victorious. It was dicey but possible, thanks in part to the fact that they got to prepare the ground and set up an ambush for when the neogi were dispersed (checking their hatchlings). If 5E were as hostile as you imply to the good old-school Combat As War paradigm, that probably wouldn't have been possible.</blockquote>

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